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Post by freestuff on Oct 10, 2021 21:32:19 GMT
Here’s some important books I’ve read:
Mere Christianity by CS Lewis – I read this book a long time ago and barely remember any details, but the thing that sticks with me is that it was engrossing at the time. It made me engage with my faith on levels I never had before. It was valuable and put me on a track where I began assessing both written and spoken material in terms other than typical PR right vs wrong.
Family Quarrels in the Dutch Reformed Churches of the 19th Century by Elton Bruins and Robert Swierenga – Short book with simple prose about Church history. Helped me see that many current conflicts are rehashed history.
The Embarrassment of Riches by Simon Schama – Long book with more challenging prose about Dutch history, but was quite worth it in my opinion. The chapter “Patriotic Scripture” takes a deep dive into why the Dutch believed they were Gods chosen people/the new Israel. This attitude has repercussions lasting to the present.
Common Grace and the Gospel by Cornelius Van Til – This book stands pretty well on its own as a buffer to PR theology. It identifies the excesses of abstraction and logical deduction. Van Til isn’t afraid to slap Kuyper around, but does so for reasons very different than HH. He also brings Herman Bavinck into the discussion (the heavy hitter PRs rarely mention). If you feel like you are intellectually surrounded by an impenetrable cloud of arguments this book would be a good first step to break through.
Abraham Kuyper by James Bratt
Herman Hoeksema by PJ Baskwell (non PR author)
Perspectives on the Christian Reformed Church edited by Peter DeKlerk and Richard DeRidder
All 3 played a general role in reducing the sensationalism wrapped up in PR theology. I was able to acquire depth of knowledge as opposed to talking points.
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Post by freefromprc on Oct 12, 2021 11:27:51 GMT
Here’s some important books I’ve read: Mere Christianity by CS Lewis – I read this book a long time ago and barely remember any details, but the thing that sticks with me is that it was engrossing at the time. It made me engage with my faith on levels I never had before. It was valuable and put me on a track where I began assessing both written and spoken material in terms other than typical PR right vs wrong. Family Quarrels in the Dutch Reformed Churches of the 19th Century by Elton Bruins and Robert Swierenga – Short book with simple prose about Church history. Helped me see that many current conflicts are rehashed history. The Embarrassment of Riches by Simon Schama – Long book with more challenging prose about Dutch history, but was quite worth it in my opinion. The chapter “Patriotic Scripture” takes a deep dive into why the Dutch believed they were Gods chosen people/the new Israel. This attitude has repercussions lasting to the present. Common Grace and the Gospel by Cornelius Van Til – This book stands pretty well on its own as a buffer to PR theology. It identifies the excesses of abstraction and logical deduction. Van Til isn’t afraid to slap Kuyper around, but does so for reasons very different than HH. He also brings Herman Bavinck into the discussion (the heavy hitter PRs rarely mention). If you feel like you are intellectually surrounded by an impenetrable cloud of arguments this book would be a good first step to break through. Abraham Kuyper by James Bratt Herman Hoeksema by PJ Baskwell (non PR author) Perspectives on the Christian Reformed Church edited by Peter DeKlerk and Richard DeRidder
All 3 played a general role in reducing the sensationalism wrapped up in PR theology. I was able to acquire depth of knowledge as opposed to talking points.I like your last sentence. Spot on. |
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Post by healing on Oct 18, 2021 0:43:07 GMT
So many good books out there on this topic. Some of them relate to my experience in the prc. Some didn’t.
Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church
Recovering from Emotionally Immature Parents: Practical Tools to Establish Boundaries and Reclaim Your Emotional Autonomy
Try Softer: A Fresh Approach to Move Us out of Anxiety, Stress, and Survival Mode--and into a Life of Connection and Joy
Soul Repair: Rebuilding Your Spiritual Life
The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse
Other resources that were good:
The Allender Center podcasts (search spiritual abuse)
The Allende Center course on spiritual abuse
Henry Cloud has a course series on Boundaries.me on Spiritual Abuse
AND a good Counselor to help you untangle your experiences and begin to see and experience the REAL God presented in the Bible, not the counterfeit god of the PRC system.
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Post by Sophia M. on Oct 21, 2021 21:41:10 GMT
I thought it might be nice to have a thread devoted to sharing about BOOKS you have found personally helpful or useful as an ex-PR or someone trying to leave. I didn’t find a thread like this when I searched, but its entirely possible I missed it… I’ll start by sharing one I just finished and can’t stop thinking about. This book came out a few years ago, but I only just got around to reading it. It’s called Educated, by Tara Westover. The author is a young woman who was born to survivalist parents in Idaho. She recounts her unusual upbringing, family dysfunction, and some terrible things she experienced. She also describes her first experience in a classroom at age 17 and how she was able to overcome obstacles to attend college and eventually graduate with a PhD in history. Her parents happen to be Mormon, but the book is not intended to be about Mormonism. Anyway, I could hardly put the book down. It’s really well-written and a pretty gripping story. I found I could relate to bits of her upbringing in small ways. I’m guessing some of you have read this book? Please share with us here about other books you’ve read and found helpful or interesting. Thanks for starting this thread. I have been getting recommendations to read the Westover book for a couple years, and finally read it this week. So glad I did. The author's steps forward and away, as well as her setbacks and returns, mostly happening during her college and grad school years, seem very familiar territory. There is a lot to identify with in this book. Even though she comes from a different religion, she grows up as part of a more extreme edge of that religion, believing as a child that the more moderate practitioners of her religion are a threat, and that the public municipal, federal, educational, and health systems, resources, and authorized leaders are not to be trusted. Two quotes I especially connected to: Last couple sentences of Chapter 22: "To admit uncertainty is to admit to weakness, to powerlessness, and to believe in yourself despite both. It is a frailty, but in this frailty there is a strength, the conviction to live in your own mind and not in someone else's. I have often wondered if the most powerful words I wrote that night came not from from anger or from rage, but from doubt: 'I don't know, I just don't know.' Not knowing for certain, but refusing to give way to those who claim certainty was a privilege I had never allowed myself. My life was narrated for me by others. Their voices were forceful, emphatic, absolute. It had never occurred to me that my voice might be as strong as theirs." near the end of Chapter 39: "Now I thought about it, I realized that all my siblings, except Richard and Tyler, were economically dependent on my parents. My family was splitting down the middle, the three who had left the mountain, and the four who had stayed, the three with doctorates and the four without high school diplomas. A chasm had appeared and was growing." |
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Post by questioneverything on Oct 21, 2021 21:54:58 GMT
I thought it might be nice to have a thread devoted to sharing about BOOKS you have found personally helpful or useful as an ex-PR or someone trying to leave. I didn’t find a thread like this when I searched, but its entirely possible I missed it… I’ll start by sharing one I just finished and can’t stop thinking about. This book came out a few years ago, but I only just got around to reading it. It’s called Educated, by Tara Westover. The author is a young woman who was born to survivalist parents in Idaho. She recounts her unusual upbringing, family dysfunction, and some terrible things she experienced. She also describes her first experience in a classroom at age 17 and how she was able to overcome obstacles to attend college and eventually graduate with a PhD in history. Her parents happen to be Mormon, but the book is not intended to be about Mormonism. Anyway, I could hardly put the book down. It’s really well-written and a pretty gripping story. I found I could relate to bits of her upbringing in small ways. I’m guessing some of you have read this book? Please share with us here about other books you’ve read and found helpful or interesting. Thanks for starting this thread. I have been getting recommendations to read the Westover book for a couple years, and finally read it this week. So glad I did. The author's steps forward and away, as well as her setbacks and returns, mostly happening during her college and grad school years, seem very familiar territory. There is a lot to identify with in this book. Even though she comes from a different religion, she grows up as part of a more extreme edge of that religion, believing as a child that the more moderate practitioners of her religion are a threat, and that the public municipal, federal, educational, and health systems, resources, and authorized leaders are not to be trusted. Two quotes I especially connected to: Last couple sentences of Chapter 22: "To admit uncertainty is to admit to weakness, to powerlessness, and to believe in yourself despite both. It is a frailty, but in this frailty there is a strength, the conviction to live in your own mind and not in someone else's. I have often wondered if the most powerful words I wrote that night came not from from anger or from rage, but from doubt: 'I don't know, I just don't know.' Not knowing for certain, but refusing to give way to those who claim certainty was a privilege I had never allowed myself. My life was narrated for me by others. Their voices were forceful, emphatic, absolute. It had never occurred to me that my voice might be as strong as theirs." near the end of Chapter 39: "Now I thought about it, I realized that all my siblings, except Richard and Tyler, were economically dependent on my parents. My family was splitting down the middle, the three who had left the mountain, and the four who had stayed, the three with doctorates and the four without high school diplomas. A chasm had appeared and was growing." That 1st quote you posted...wow. |
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Post by questioneverything on Oct 21, 2021 22:03:11 GMT
I thought it might be nice to have a thread devoted to sharing about BOOKS you have found personally helpful or useful as an ex-PR or someone trying to leave. I didn’t find a thread like this when I searched, but its entirely possible I missed it… I’ll start by sharing one I just finished and can’t stop thinking about. This book came out a few years ago, but I only just got around to reading it. It’s called Educated, by Tara Westover. The author is a young woman who was born to survivalist parents in Idaho. She recounts her unusual upbringing, family dysfunction, and some terrible things she experienced. She also describes her first experience in a classroom at age 17 and how she was able to overcome obstacles to attend college and eventually graduate with a PhD in history. Her parents happen to be Mormon, but the book is not intended to be about Mormonism. Anyway, I could hardly put the book down. It’s really well-written and a pretty gripping story. I found I could relate to bits of her upbringing in small ways. I’m guessing some of you have read this book? Please share with us here about other books you’ve read and found helpful or interesting. Thanks for starting this thread. I have been getting recommendations to read the Westover book for a couple years, and finally read it this week. So glad I did. The author's steps forward and away, as well as her setbacks and returns, mostly happening during her college and grad school years, seem very familiar territory. There is a lot to identify with in this book. Even though she comes from a different religion, she grows up as part of a more extreme edge of that religion, believing as a child that the more moderate practitioners of her religion are a threat, and that the public municipal, federal, educational, and health systems, resources, and authorized leaders are not to be trusted. Two quotes I especially connected to: Last couple sentences of Chapter 22: "To admit uncertainty is to admit to weakness, to powerlessness, and to believe in yourself despite both. It is a frailty, but in this frailty there is a strength, the conviction to live in your own mind and not in someone else's. I have often wondered if the most powerful words I wrote that night came not from from anger or from rage, but from doubt: 'I don't know, I just don't know.' Not knowing for certain, but refusing to give way to those who claim certainty was a privilege I had never allowed myself. My life was narrated for me by others. Their voices were forceful, emphatic, absolute. It had never occurred to me that my voice might be as strong as theirs." near the end of Chapter 39: "Now I thought about it, I realized that all my siblings, except Richard and Tyler, were economically dependent on my parents. My family was splitting down the middle, the three who had left the mountain, and the four who had stayed, the three with doctorates and the four without high school diplomas. A chasm had appeared and was growing." |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 0:13:38 GMT
Thanks for starting this thread. I have been getting recommendations to read the Westover book for a couple years, and finally read it this week. So glad I did. The author's steps forward and away, as well as her setbacks and returns, mostly happening during her college and grad school years, seem very familiar territory. There is a lot to identify with in this book. Even though she comes from a different religion, she grows up as part of a more extreme edge of that religion, believing as a child that the more moderate practitioners of her religion are a threat, and that the public municipal, federal, educational, and health systems, resources, and authorized leaders are not to be trusted. Two quotes I especially connected to: Last couple sentences of Chapter 22: "To admit uncertainty is to admit to weakness, to powerlessness, and to believe in yourself despite both. It is a frailty, but in this frailty there is a strength, the conviction to live in your own mind and not in someone else's. I have often wondered if the most powerful words I wrote that night came not from from anger or from rage, but from doubt: 'I don't know, I just don't know.' Not knowing for certain, but refusing to give way to those who claim certainty was a privilege I had never allowed myself. My life was narrated for me by others. Their voices were forceful, emphatic, absolute. It had never occurred to me that my voice might be as strong as theirs." near the end of Chapter 39: "Now I thought about it, I realized that all my siblings, except Richard and Tyler, were economically dependent on my parents. My family was splitting down the middle, the three who had left the mountain, and the four who had stayed, the three with doctorates and the four without high school diplomas. A chasm had appeared and was growing." What she said around the 25:00 mark nailed it and made me think of something one of my college professors said, which hit me like a brick at the time: "Education is not the learning of facts, but the training of the mind to think." Now, you do have to learn facts in school, but the point is that education should not be indoctrination from a worldview perspective. |
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Post by curiouscat on Oct 22, 2021 1:24:48 GMT
So many good books out there on this topic. Some of them relate to my experience in the prc. Some didn’t. Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church Recovering from Emotionally Immature Parents: Practical Tools to Establish Boundaries and Reclaim Your Emotional Autonomy Try Softer: A Fresh Approach to Move Us out of Anxiety, Stress, and Survival Mode--and into a Life of Connection and Joy Soul Repair: Rebuilding Your Spiritual Life The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse Other resources that were good: The Allender Center podcasts (search spiritual abuse) The Allende Center course on spiritual abuse Henry Cloud has a course series on Boundaries.me on Spiritual Abuse AND a good Counselor to help you untangle your experiences and begin to see and experience the REAL God presented in the Bible, not the counterfeit god of the PRC system. I don't have a lot of time to read many books, but I cannot recommend "Try Softer" enough. Really helped me to see how often I "white knuckle" my way through life and how often others push me past my window of tolerance. Love this book. Thank you for your recommendations healing, looks like I need to add some books to my list |
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Post by curiouscat on Oct 22, 2021 1:31:29 GMT
I've held back posting in here because I haven't read (or haven't finished) books relevant to this topic. With that in mind, here are some books that are highly recommended in exvangelical circles: The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel VanderKolk Leaving the Fold by Marlene Winell Becoming Safely Embodied by Dierdre Fay Lost Connections by Johann Hari Just started listening to the audio book for "The Body Keeps the Score". So far I love it. Its been helpful to me in understanding the effects of the trauma of others and my own (lesser) trauma. I really enjoy how it dives into the psychology and biology behind the trauma from a psychiatrist's perspective. An excellent read (or listen 😉) |
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Post by AgnosticAgain on Oct 25, 2021 19:49:26 GMT
I've held back posting in here because I haven't read (or haven't finished) books relevant to this topic. With that in mind, here are some books that are highly recommended in exvangelical circles: The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel VanderKolk Leaving the Fold by Marlene Winell Becoming Safely Embodied by Dierdre Fay Lost Connections by Johann Hari Just started listening to the audio book for "The Body Keeps the Score". So far I love it. Its been helpful to me in understanding the effects of the trauma of others and my own (lesser) trauma. I really enjoy how it dives into the psychology and biology behind the trauma from a psychiatrist's perspective. An excellent read (or listen 😉) I second The Body Keeps the Score. Also, Protecting the Gift by Gavin De Becker. Both by renowned experts on trauma with years of hands on experience working with victims. One for trauma survivors and the other for women, especially mothers looking to protect their children from abuse. www.goodreads.com/book/show/92443.Protecting_the_Giftwww.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/313183/the-body-keeps-the-score-by-bessel-van-der-kolk-md/Sorry I don't know how to do the fancy hyperlink thing. |
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Post by AgnosticAgain on Oct 26, 2021 23:16:20 GMT
Also, the NIV version of the bible. It's amazing how much clearer God's word becomes when that unnecessary Elizabethan English is removed.
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Post by page91 on Oct 28, 2021 19:02:54 GMT
Not a book, but the podcast "the bible project" is nice to listen to. I've also switched to reading the RSV because I'm too lowly of mind to comprehend the perfection of the KJV.
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Post by notulip on Nov 6, 2021 21:09:15 GMT
Does anyone know if there is a similar thread for movies / TV? This one has been helpful, so I wanted to check here first before starting a new one.
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Post by Admin on Nov 6, 2021 21:18:42 GMT
Does anyone know if there is a similar thread for movies / TV? This one has been helpful, so I wanted to check here first before starting a new one. Welcome to the forum. Please feel free to start one. |
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Post by JohnOrange on Nov 6, 2021 21:33:59 GMT
Also, the NIV version of the bible. It's amazing how much clearer God's word becomes when that unnecessary Elizabethan English is removed. Ditto. I made so much progress in absorbing especially the Old Testament when I started reading the NIV. |
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