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Post by freedom on Feb 8, 2022 18:15:25 GMT
I was trying to find the right thread to put this on. But one of the only arguments that was said against me leaving was that I was breaking the confession of faith I made when I was younger. This is because "when I made it I promised to adhere to the doctrines of the church". Now that I am going to a church with a different belief on a lot of these main doctrines I have "broken my confession of faith". This obviously hurts because I am Christian and still hold fast to my confession of faith. I wonder if this has been said to/used against anyone else? Before or after the sermon, the minister requests those who intend to make public confession of their faith to arise and to reply to the following questions: Do you acknowledge the doctrine contained in the Old and New Testaments and in the Articles of the Christian faith and taught here in this Christian Church to be the true and complete doctrine of salvation? Have you resolved by the grace of God to adhere to this doctrine; to reject all heresies repugnant thereto and to lead a new, godly life? Will you submit to church government, and in case you should be delinquent (which may God graciously forbid) to church discipline? Your issue is VERY unfortunate and am a sorry you have to go through this hurtful. In the SB REV. MARTYN MC GEOWN on July 1, 2016 says, "The Trinity, the Incarnation of the Son of God, the bodily resurrection, and the existence of heaven and hell constitute articles of the Christian faith." By moving to a different denomination you are not abandoning your faith or denying your vows. Your vows were to God not the PRC, and for the elders to confuse them at this stage reveals much. |
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Post by profit on Feb 8, 2022 19:59:33 GMT
I see it similar to the other responses here. Don't let their games scare you. I was a Christian first and a PR second. For me, leaving was a fulfillment of my vow in a sort of way. The church I made a vow to was the catholic church. It was not made to a cultural body that lacks grace and mercy and thrives on legalism and tearing down the neighbor. As we grow and learn more, we change and I am so thankful I had the critical thinking to recognize the toxicity. The PR body bars communion from the fellow Christian. This should be a deal breaker for anyone who believes that salvation can be found outside the PR denomination. Any PR's believing that salvation can be found outside the PR denomination are living in heresy against their denomination. It is a shame they have so many people convinced/indoctrinated and the pressure of our social peers and family makes it so difficult. It's a type of crab mentality.
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Post by wewerepr on Feb 8, 2022 20:09:12 GMT
I was trying to find the right thread to put this on. But one of the only arguments that was said against me leaving was that I was breaking the confession of faith I made when I was younger. This is because "when I made it I promised to adhere to the doctrines of the church". Now that I am going to a church with a different belief on a lot of these main doctrines I have "broken my confession of faith". This obviously hurts because I am Christian and still hold fast to my confession of faith. I wonder if this has been said to/used against anyone else? Before or after the sermon, the minister requests those who intend to make public confession of their faith to arise and to reply to the following questions: Do you acknowledge the doctrine contained in the Old and New Testaments and in the Articles of the Christian faith and taught here in this Christian Church to be the true and complete doctrine of salvation? Have you resolved by the grace of God to adhere to this doctrine; to reject all heresies repugnant thereto and to lead a new, godly life? Will you submit to church government, and in case you should be delinquent (which may God graciously forbid) to church discipline? Your issue is VERY unfortunate and am a sorry you have to go through this hurtful. In the SB REV. MARTYN MC GEOWN on July 1, 2016 says, "The Trinity, the Incarnation of the Son of God, the bodily resurrection, and the existence of heaven and hell constitute articles of the Christian faith." By moving to a different denomination you are not abandoning your faith or denying your vows. Your vows were to God not the PRC, and for the elders to confuse them at this stage reveals much. Many of the elders believe that the vows ARE made to the prca. It does reveal much, it reveals the thought process is akin to a cult and sound basic understanding of true Christian faith is not found in the leadership. Perhaps the prca should have a conference addressing the true nature of the profession of faith, baptism, and membership papers. Not only would many elders learn something , perhaps ministers would as well. The tyrannical cruel verbal lie of “abandoning your faith or denying your vow” is a tactic used by many prcs. A terrible cruel lie. |
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Post by beachbum on Feb 18, 2022 14:49:13 GMT
Sometimes people ask me why am I still Prc- I don’t fit- it is for my marriage-when did I know I was a square peg trying to fit in a round hole? I had to think about this - really when did I know and after much thought I know the answer when my first child was born and the love I had for my child - I would rip the doors off the school if someone ever spanked them! Well it is a mama bear love- and when My child was being baptized I felt a vast love of God to give his only dear son for me a filthy sinner - well I never get that love the love God has for me from the church - so as I raise my children I make them realize over and above everything God loves you - more than you can ever imagine- yes he hates my sin but he sees me perfect in Christ that is the love that I want and never receive from Prc and that love is what I have instilled into my children! I am so thankful God loves me
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Post by leslin on Feb 18, 2022 15:54:23 GMT
Sometimes people ask me why am I still Prc- I don’t fit- it is for my marriage-when did I know I was a square peg trying to fit in a round hole? I had to think about this - really when did I know and after much thought I know the answer when my first child was born and the love I had for my child - I would rip the doors off the school if someone ever spanked them! Well it is a mama bear love- and when My child was being baptized I felt a vast love of God to give his only dear son for me a filthy sinner - well I never get that love the love God has for me from the church - so as I raise my children I make them realize over and above everything God loves you - more than you can ever imagine- yes he hates my sin but he sees me perfect in Christ that is the love that I want and never receive from Prc and that love is what I have instilled into my children! I am so thankful God loves me Beautiful words! |
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oncer
Gum Chewer
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Post by oncer on Mar 8, 2022 7:37:47 GMT
I was trying to find the right thread to put this on. But one of the only arguments that was said against me leaving was that I was breaking the confession of faith I made when I was younger. This is because "when I made it I promised to adhere to the doctrines of the church". Now that I am going to a church with a different belief on a lot of these main doctrines I have "broken my confession of faith". This obviously hurts because I am Christian and still hold fast to my confession of faith. I wonder if this has been said to/used against anyone else? Before or after the sermon, the minister requests those who intend to make public confession of their faith to arise and to reply to the following questions: Do you acknowledge the doctrine contained in the Old and New Testaments and in the Articles of the Christian faith and taught here in this Christian Church to be the true and complete doctrine of salvation? Have you resolved by the grace of God to adhere to this doctrine; to reject all heresies repugnant thereto and to lead a new, godly life? Will you submit to church government, and in case you should be delinquent (which may God graciously forbid) to church discipline? Your issue is VERY unfortunate and am a sorry you have to go through this hurtful. In the SB REV. MARTYN MC GEOWN on July 1, 2016 says, "The Trinity, the Incarnation of the Son of God, the bodily resurrection, and the existence of heaven and hell constitute articles of the Christian faith." By moving to a different denomination you are not abandoning your faith or denying your vows. Your vows were to God not the PRC, and for the elders to confuse them at this stage reveals much. I don’t think the elders are confusing these vows. This statement that they say that you are breaking a promise to adhere to the doctrines of the church is a common tactic they must be teaching elders to say to those leaving as multiple people in this forum have mentioned it. I married into the PRC and my wife grew up in it. When we decided to leave, after several meetings, I told the elders that we were going to join a church from a different reformed denomination. When they heard that from me, they physically turned away from me and cornered my wife, and said that line to her. I wish this forum existed when we went through it, because it would have been easier to know you just need to say you are leaving and not engage in arguments or reasons for leaving as it won’t make any difference. They are all following the same playbook of strong arm tactics, fear mongering, guilting, and shunning. But what I found is that they know that these tactics don’t work on someone who didn’t grow up in the PRC and it’s schools, so they focus harder on the spouse that did grow up in it. They try to create separation of the spouses by looking into the native PR spouse’s eyes and speaking the special PRisms and code phrases that have been programmed into them growing up in the church and school. |
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Whisper
Seminary Student
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Post by Whisper on Mar 8, 2022 8:15:12 GMT
I was trying to find the right thread to put this on. But one of the only arguments that was said against me leaving was that I was breaking the confession of faith I made when I was younger. This is because "when I made it I promised to adhere to the doctrines of the church". Now that I am going to a church with a different belief on a lot of these main doctrines I have "broken my confession of faith". This obviously hurts because I am Christian and still hold fast to my confession of faith. I wonder if this has been said to/used against anyone else? They tried to “twist my arm” with this one too, and apply guilt. They truly have unbiblical sectarian leadership. |
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Post by freedom on Mar 8, 2022 13:49:41 GMT
Before or after the sermon, the minister requests those who intend to make public confession of their faith to arise and to reply to the following questions: Do you acknowledge the doctrine contained in the Old and New Testaments and in the Articles of the Christian faith and taught here in this Christian Church to be the true and complete doctrine of salvation? Have you resolved by the grace of God to adhere to this doctrine; to reject all heresies repugnant thereto and to lead a new, godly life? Will you submit to church government, and in case you should be delinquent (which may God graciously forbid) to church discipline? Your issue is VERY unfortunate and am a sorry you have to go through this hurtful. In the SB REV. MARTYN MC GEOWN on July 1, 2016 says, "The Trinity, the Incarnation of the Son of God, the bodily resurrection, and the existence of heaven and hell constitute articles of the Christian faith." By moving to a different denomination you are not abandoning your faith or denying your vows. Your vows were to God not the PRC, and for the elders to confuse them at this stage reveals much. I don’t think the elders are confusing these vows. This statement that they say that you are breaking a promise to adhere to the doctrines of the church is a common tactic they must be teaching elders to say to those leaving as multiple people in this forum have mentioned it. I married into the PRC and my wife grew up in it. When we decided to leave, after several meetings, I told the elders that we were going to join a church from a different reformed denomination. When they heard that from me, they physically turned away from me and cornered my wife, and said that line to her. I wish this forum existed when we went through it, because it would have been easier to know you just need to say you are leaving and not engage in arguments or reasons for leaving as it won’t make any difference. They are all following the same playbook of strong arm tactics, fear mongering, guilting, and shunning. But what I found is that they know that these tactics don’t work on someone who didn’t grow up in the PRC and it’s schools, so they focus harder on the spouse that did grow up in it. They try to create separation of the spouses by looking into the native PR spouse’s eyes and speaking the special PRisms and code phrases that have been programmed into them growing up in the church and school. My point was not to say this does not happen, but to highlight the stupidity of this scare tactic. Either when you say yes you are saying that the PRC teaching is the true and complete doctrine of salvation or this church teaches the true and complete doctrine of salvation. The SB article shows the true and complete doctrine of salvation are simply the essentials of Christianity rather than the XYZ that the PRC holds to. When the PRC uses these vows as a club against you when you leave is totally disingenuous. Yes, there probably are some elders who think the XYZ of the PRC doctrine are the essentials of Christianity. Jesus calls these men snakes, brood of vipers, blind guides, whitewashed tombs, and the converts they make are twice the child of hell. However, I think most do not view the XYZ of PRC as the essentials, but are happy to use it as a club to scare people into submission. I seriously doubt Jesus words above apply to them, but believe these men are seriously weak in their faith, and as much as they want to object to it, they minimize the work of the Holy Spirit. |
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Post by throwaway2018 on Mar 8, 2022 15:01:26 GMT
I was trying to find the right thread to put this on. But one of the only arguments that was said against me leaving was that I was breaking the confession of faith I made when I was younger. This is because "when I made it I promised to adhere to the doctrines of the church". Now that I am going to a church with a different belief on a lot of these main doctrines I have "broken my confession of faith". This obviously hurts because I am Christian and still hold fast to my confession of faith. I wonder if this has been said to/used against anyone else? I am familiar with what you're talking about. I remember this line of reasoning being used several times in my childhood to explain why it was wrong for so-and-so to leave the church. I'm sure you know this already, but it's such a silly line of reasoning to be used. When you genuinely have changed your deeply held beliefs, it seems ridiculous to consider that God would rather you honor a "vow" you made to always follow what the PRC teaches rather than follow what you actually believe to be true. I think many PRs use this line of reasoning because they can't fathom that someone might actually have changed their deeply held beliefs. They think everyone just inherently knows that what the PRC teaches is true and everyone who goes to other churches is only doing it to be able to live a less Godly lifestyle. It's bizarre and illogical. |
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Post by cannalily on Mar 8, 2022 16:43:48 GMT
I was trying to find the right thread to put this on. But one of the only arguments that was said against me leaving was that I was breaking the confession of faith I made when I was younger. This is because "when I made it I promised to adhere to the doctrines of the church". Now that I am going to a church with a different belief on a lot of these main doctrines I have "broken my confession of faith". This obviously hurts because I am Christian and still hold fast to my confession of faith. I wonder if this has been said to/used against anyone else? I am familiar with what you're talking about. I remember this line of reasoning being used several times in my childhood to explain why it was wrong for so-and-so to leave the church. I'm sure you know this already, but it's such a silly line of reasoning to be used. When you genuinely have changed your deeply held beliefs, it seems ridiculous to consider that God would rather you honor a "vow" you made to always follow what the PRC teaches rather than follow what you actually believe to be true. I think many PRs use this line of reasoning because they can't fathom that someone might actually have changed their deeply held beliefs. They think everyone just inherently knows that what the PRC teaches is true and everyone who goes to other churches is only doing it to be able to live a less Godly lifestyle. It's bizarre and illogical. Yeah, that's the problem with this binary thinking. It's either all or nothing. And then they conveniently follow it up with "Well, we're not perfect. No church is perfect." But when you drill down to that reasoning, you're cast out because it's either all or nothing. |
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Post by leslin on Mar 8, 2022 22:35:11 GMT
“When they heard that from me, they physically turned away from me and cornered my wife, and said that line to her.
But what I found is that they know that these tactics don’t work on someone who didn’t grow up in the PRC and it’s schools, so they focus harder on the spouse that did grow up in it. They try to create separation of the spouses by looking into the native PR spouse’s eyes and speaking the special PRisms and code phrases that have been programmed into them growing up in the church and school. [/quote]
This exact thing has happened to me too but by family members of my spouse, trying to appeal to a knowledge I don’t have because I was raised differently.
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Post by windmill on Mar 8, 2022 23:15:57 GMT
“When they heard that from me, they physically turned away from me and cornered my wife, and said that line to her. But what I found is that they know that these tactics don’t work on someone who didn’t grow up in the PRC and it’s schools, so they focus harder on the spouse that did grow up in it. They try to create separation of the spouses by looking into the native PR spouse’s eyes and speaking the special PRisms and code phrases that have been programmed into them growing up in the church and school. This exact thing has happened to me too but by family members of my spouse, trying to appeal to a knowledge I don’t have because I was raised differently.[/quote] They did it to me too. I’m so glad my spouse and I realize now that they are simply tactics of a cult. |
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Whisper
Seminary Student
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Post by Whisper on Mar 9, 2022 7:48:33 GMT
I don’t think the elders are confusing these vows. This statement that they say that you are breaking a promise to adhere to the doctrines of the church is a common tactic they must be teaching elders to say to those leaving as multiple people in this forum have mentioned it. I married into the PRC and my wife grew up in it. When we decided to leave, after several meetings, I told the elders that we were going to join a church from a different reformed denomination. When they heard that from me, they physically turned away from me and cornered my wife, and said that line to her. I wish this forum existed when we went through it, because it would have been easier to know you just need to say you are leaving and not engage in arguments or reasons for leaving as it won’t make any difference. They are all following the same playbook of strong arm tactics, fear mongering, guilting, and shunning. But what I found is that they know that these tactics don’t work on someone who didn’t grow up in the PRC and it’s schools, so they focus harder on the spouse that did grow up in it. They try to create separation of the spouses by looking into the native PR spouse’s eyes and speaking the special PRisms and code phrases that have been programmed into them growing up in the church and school. My point was not to say this does not happen, but to highlight the stupidity of this scare tactic. Either when you say yes you are saying that the PRC teaching is the true and complete doctrine of salvation or this church teaches the true and complete doctrine of salvation. The SB article shows the true and complete doctrine of salvation are simply the essentials of Christianity rather than the XYZ that the PRC holds to. When the PRC uses these vows as a club against you when you leave is totally disingenuous. Yes, there probably are some elders who think the XYZ of the PRC doctrine are the essentials of Christianity. Jesus calls these men snakes, brood of vipers, blind guides, whitewashed tombs, and the converts they make are twice the child of hell. However, I think most do not view the XYZ of PRC as the essentials, but are happy to use it as a club to scare people into submission. I seriously doubt Jesus words above apply to them, but believe these men are seriously weak in their faith, and as much as they want to object to it, they minimize the work of the Holy Spirit. Spot on! |
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Post by wewerepr on Mar 9, 2022 15:35:29 GMT
I don’t think the elders are confusing these vows. This statement that they say that you are breaking a promise to adhere to the doctrines of the church is a common tactic they must be teaching elders to say to those leaving as multiple people in this forum have mentioned it. I married into the PRC and my wife grew up in it. When we decided to leave, after several meetings, I told the elders that we were going to join a church from a different reformed denomination. When they heard that from me, they physically turned away from me and cornered my wife, and said that line to her. I wish this forum existed when we went through it, because it would have been easier to know you just need to say you are leaving and not engage in arguments or reasons for leaving as it won’t make any difference. They are all following the same playbook of strong arm tactics, fear mongering, guilting, and shunning. But what I found is that they know that these tactics don’t work on someone who didn’t grow up in the PRC and it’s schools, so they focus harder on the spouse that did grow up in it. They try to create separation of the spouses by looking into the native PR spouse’s eyes and speaking the special PRisms and code phrases that have been programmed into them growing up in the church and school. My point was not to say this does not happen, but to highlight the stupidity of this scare tactic. Either when you say yes you are saying that the PRC teaching is the true and complete doctrine of salvation or this church teaches the true and complete doctrine of salvation. The SB article shows the true and complete doctrine of salvation are simply the essentials of Christianity rather than the XYZ that the PRC holds to. When the PRC uses these vows as a club against you when you leave is totally disingenuous. Yes, there probably are some elders who think the XYZ of the PRC doctrine are the essentials of Christianity. Jesus calls these men snakes, brood of vipers, blind guides, whitewashed tombs, and the converts they make are twice the child of hell. However, I think most do not view the XYZ of PRC as the essentials, but are happy to use it as a club to scare people into submission. I seriously doubt Jesus words above apply to them, but believe these men are seriously weak in their faith, and as much as they want to object to it, they minimize the work of the Holy Spirit."These men" are the LEADERS IN THE CHURCH. "weak in their faith" and by their weakness they are causing others to flounder and flail. Their judgement in heaven will be all the heavier. I think perhaps Jesus' words DO apply to them. If "these men" and others like them DO NOT view the "XYZ of PRC doctrine as essentials to Christianity" then let us hear them loud and clear. Let these faith-weak men strive to be strong in the Lord and LEARN and LEAD in the paths of righteousness...... oh....that's right....there's another thread about THAT: "when leader don't or won't advocate for change" exprc.freeforums.net/post/17882 What a pitiful merry-go-round of self-righteouness and un Christ-like (read "evil") thinking, living, and doctrine. This scare tactic is just not stupid.....IT IS EVIL and CRUEL, and is used INTENTIONALLY. (personal vent for the day complete) |
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Post by wewerepr on Mar 9, 2022 19:50:36 GMT
Before or after the sermon, the minister requests those who intend to make public confession of their faith to arise and to reply to the following questions: Do you acknowledge the doctrine contained in the Old and New Testaments and in the Articles of the Christian faith and taught here in this Christian Church to be the true and complete doctrine of salvation? Have you resolved by the grace of God to adhere to this doctrine; to reject all heresies repugnant thereto and to lead a new, godly life? Will you submit to church government, and in case you should be delinquent (which may God graciously forbid) to church discipline? Your issue is VERY unfortunate and am a sorry you have to go through this hurtful. In the SB REV. MARTYN MC GEOWN on July 1, 2016 says, "The Trinity, the Incarnation of the Son of God, the bodily resurrection, and the existence of heaven and hell constitute articles of the Christian faith." By moving to a different denomination you are not abandoning your faith or denying your vows. Your vows were to God not the PRC, and for the elders to confuse them at this stage reveals much. I don’t think the elders are confusing these vows. This statement that they say that you are breaking a promise to adhere to the doctrines of the church is a common tactic they must be teaching elders to say to those leaving as multiple people in this forum have mentioned it. I married into the PRC and my wife grew up in it. When we decided to leave, after several meetings, I told the elders that we were going to join a church from a different reformed denomination. When they heard that from me, they physically turned away from me and cornered my wife, and said that line to her. I wish this forum existed when we went through it, because it would have been easier to know you just need to say you are leaving and not engage in arguments or reasons for leaving as it won’t make any difference. They are all following the same playbook of strong arm tactics, fear mongering, guilting, and shunning. B ut what I found is that they know that these tactics don’t work on someone who didn’t grow up in the PRC and it’s schools, so they focus harder on the spouse that did grow up in it. They try to create separation of the spouses by looking into the native PR spouse’s eyes and speaking the special PRisms and code phrases that have been programmed into them growing up in the church and school. What I have highlighted in oncer's post above IS a definition of spiritual abuse. The elders in that meeting were abusing their power as leaders in the church. Do not minimize this fact. The elders in that meeting were using religious belief to ridicule, manipulate, or shame the other spouse (the wife in this case) to control the member(s) into staying in the PR church. This tactic (to say you are breaking a promise to adhere to the doctrines of the PRC) is not just a tool....it is ABUSE. If you don't think pressure from leaders in a church to manipulate or shame members into staying in the organiztion is abuse then you too are part of the cult, cults use the power of position to manipulate members into staying. Elders should be educated in what constitutes spiritual abuse, another topic for an office bearers conference! |
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