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Post by KristianWrights on Sept 6, 2016 21:53:48 GMT
Seriously, ask me anything. I am not here to claim I am an authority on what the PRC teaches, although I am a member, but I am interested in hearing what you have to say to me. My main interest here is that I feel I, as well as others in the church, am being misrepresented in the comments. Please do not misinterpret me as saying that I don't believe your stories listed elsewhere on the forum, because I know very well that bad people exist within our congregations. I simply feel that sometimes a blanket statement is used for all members of these churches when it isn't appropriate. And so, allow me to defend myself and my beliefs to you. All I want is to have a fair debate that represents both sides of our arguments well. I am willing to reveal personal details to a certain extent, although I do wish to remain anonymous so some questions may go unanswered. I will do the best I can to paint an accurate picture of myself and my beliefs without compromising that anonymity. why do you feel like you have to be anonymous?..... If you were proud of your church and believed all your churches rules.... Why hide? I have a great answer for that but I would love to hear yours.
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Post by KristianWrights on Sept 6, 2016 22:34:01 GMT
I work in software development, and spend a lot of my time working with security. A byproduct of that is me being paranoid about the security of my information. I work hard to remain fairly anonymous everywhere on the web if possible. Far too many people have fallen victim to identity theft because someone was able to glean information like birth dates, birth locations, phone numbers, full names, etc. from Facebook then used that information to get into accounts with security questions as fallbacks when a password was forgotten. Take a look at your social profile sometime - chances are someone could find out the name of your first pet, your mothers maiden name, or other information like that just from scrolling through your connections and posts! It has nothing to do with shame for my church or my beliefs. I don't think I would be willing to share them if I was ashamed. Please don't assume things about my character, especially negative things. I'll do the same for you. Forgive me for preaching about the subject, but it's one I'm passionate about. lol ohhhhh that's good! ps I don't have Facebook or a pet.... Bummer I'm giving out to much information. So my guess is that you made up your birthday when you created this account? If not .... I can figure out who you are just by saying that you are pr and your birthday and you in software development... I'm not threatening you... I'm just saying you have already given way to much information if in fact the information you have given is correct. Anyway mind as well get to what you want to get to. Hope church.... You know what's going on there.... What are the members exactly fighting about?
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Post by KristianWrights on Sept 6, 2016 22:38:14 GMT
Remember you are only one of 8 thousand people... Minus kids 16 and below... Minus all woman because most of them don't have jobs and are not in software development..... Your one in maybe maybe 2 thousand members I'll take my chances of having my dogs name stolen on Facebook any day 1.7billion active daily members.. Yeh your identity probably can be stolen today I'm just making laughs.. Please take it as funny. Your religion is sooooooo small compared to the world .... And you are the only ones who have "the most pure preaching" how does 4 thousand people find that? It's amazing! And you hold "the keys of the kingdom" wow those are some bold statements for a 8 thousand people church.
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Post by freefromprc on Sept 7, 2016 10:58:04 GMT
KristianWrights: Actually, I am a female. Again with the assumptions, eh? People who know me personally will know who I am if they stumble across this forum post. They're not who I'm worried about. I'm worried about the people who would target me for my beliefs (I am not trying to imply you). I doubt anyone who doesn't know me personally would be able to figure out who I am, as I have taken care to conceal my identity from the public. I am not aware of any fights going on in Hope church, so I cannot comment on that. You're right, my denomination is small compared to the world. I'm not going to say my religion, because that encompasses many more people. I wouldn't say we are without a doubt the people with the purest preaching - the PRCA is simply the denomination that has the purest preaching to my personal knowledge. I hope I'm correct in assuming you would say the same about your church? Four thousand people found it because that's where God led them. If you have a problem with that number, I'm not the one to take that up with. Again, I'm not saying those 4,000 people are the only ones who are God's children. Only God knows who are and who aren't his children. The best we can do is worship him the way that we feel is best. I would agree that I believe my church holds the keys of the kingdom, however, yours may as well. Those keys are for God to hand out, not men. Thanks for joining the forum to defend the PRC. The fact that you have done this already suggests that you are an unusual member, and not the mainstream PRC member. You said the... PRCA is simply the denomination that has the purest preaching to my personal knowledge. This could be an important statement if you have some significant personal knowledge about other churches out there. How many churches beside the PRC have you personally attended? Have you ever attended another denomination that you would call a true church? Even though YOU may call another denomination true, would the PRC openly officially name another TRUE church, and if so, which one?
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Post by freefromprc on Sept 7, 2016 14:53:54 GMT
Freefromprc: I strongly disagree with your statement that I am an unusual PRC member. I don't think many people, at least in my social circle, are aware this forum exists at all. I sure hadn't ever heard of it. I stumbled across it when looking for a different forum that some friends of mine were members of. Even if they are aware of it, I don't think it's a fair statement to say that I am simply not mainstream PRC because I posted here. I would never say that I have significant personal knowledge of any denomination other than the PRC - I believe that requires a large amount of time dedicated to going to their services which I am not currently looking to do. Why would I, if I see nothing wrong with the church I am in? As a fairly awful example, say I am taking a multiple choice test. I can choose 1 of 4 answers, 2 of which are right. If I know choice A is right, why would I bother picking B, which I'm not sure about? If I am ever unsure of choice A, it is at that point that I will begin to look into picking another choice. I don't really know how many other churches I have attended - maybe 10? Not many, that's for sure. Most of my knowledge of other denomination's beliefs comes from my four years at a Christian college. I have many, many friends of other denominations. Since we do like to talk about our spiritual beliefs with one another, I have learned that many don't believe the same things I do. I know I feel right in my heart for going to the PRC and believing what I believe, but I also know that my friends feel very strongly in their hearts that their church is right. As long as they are truly doing what they believe is right I can't fault them for that. I cannot judge them, only God can do that. I feel my calling is to let them know my beliefs, and I have. I think you're mistaken in asking me to name physical churches and denominations as true/false. The true church consists of all the elect. I do believe the PRC represents the true church, however. In fact, here's a quote I'm sure you're familiar with. If a church fulfills these marks, they represent the true church. "The marks by which the true Church is known are these: if the pure doctrine of the gospel is preached therein; if she maintains the pure administration of the sacraments as instituted by Christ; if church discipline is exercised in punishing of sin: in short, if all things are managed according to the pure Word of God, all things contrary thereto rejected, and Jesus Christ acknowledged as the only Head of the Church. Hereby the true Church may certainly be known, from which no man has a right to separate himself." How do you feel about doctrinal quotes? Do you prefer to go with just Bible verses here? If you want to know who the PRC denomination affiliates themselves with, you can do that research yourself. Here's a reference with our sister churches listed. www.prca.org/missions/sister-churchesSo admittedly, you have basically no experience in other churches. Your personal knowledge is limited to what college friends have said, and what the PRC has told you. The statement you made is then very weak, and should be questioned by you and others. That statement was.... PRCA is simply the denomination that has the purest preaching to my personal knowledge and you admittedly have pretty close to zero personal knowledge about other churches. If you knew as much about the PRC as you think you do, you would know that the PRC puts a lot of weight on the true versus the false church. I agree with your statement that the true church consists of all the elect. The PRC takes it way beyond that and is willing to condemn churches as false, yet i have yet to hear one they will call true other than their own. (and sister churches). BTW, you are not dealing with amateurs on this site, we don't need a link to the sister churches, or quotes from the belgic confession although feel free to do as you like. As a matter of fact, since you apparently like the BC, here are some excerps that you apparently also disagree with: BC article 28 We believe, since this holy congregation is an assembly of those who are saved, and that out of it there is no salvation
BC article 28 And that this may be the more effectually observed, it is the duty of all believers, according to the word of God, to separate themselves from all those who do not belong to the Church BC article 29 As for the false Church, she ascribes more power and authority to herself and her ordinances than to the Word of God (interesting isn't it?) BC article 29 These two Churches are easily known and distinguished from each other. (If it is so easy to distinguish the false from the true, why won't you go ahead and start naming some false and true churches)? Do you believe the PRC should treat members who leave the denomination differently because they left? Not talking about any other problems the individual may be experiencing, just talking about leaving the PRC.
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Post by crazychurch on Sept 7, 2016 15:33:18 GMT
KristianWrights: Actually, I am a female. Again with the assumptions, eh? People who know me personally will know who I am if they stumble across this forum post. They're not who I'm worried about. I'm worried about the people who would target me for my beliefs (I am not trying to imply you). I doubt anyone who doesn't know me personally would be able to figure out who I am, as I have taken care to conceal my identity from the public. I am not aware of any fights going on in Hope church, so I cannot comment on that. You're right, my denomination is small compared to the world. I'm not going to say my religion, because that encompasses many more people. I wouldn't say we are without a doubt the people with the purest preaching - the PRCA is simply the denomination that has the purest preaching to my personal knowledge. I hope I'm correct in assuming you would say the same about your church? Four thousand people found it because that's where God led them. If you have a problem with that number, I'm not the one to take that up with. Again, I'm not saying those 4,000 people are the only ones who are God's children. Only God knows who are and who aren't his children. The best we can do is worship him the way that we feel is best. I would agree that I believe my church holds the keys of the kingdom, however, yours may as well. Those keys are for God to hand out, not men. Are you playing the victim card even before it's thrown? How would you know of any fights going on in Hope church as a woman? As an IT person, it's safe to assume you've done some math. Can you show me the ratio of 4,000 people versus the entire world of people? Based on that number, you should feel pretty pretty special, right? Feel free to answer any/all of these questions.
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Post by Admin on Sept 7, 2016 16:09:59 GMT
Hi Anonuser, a little late to this party, but welcome to the forum. The Admin Team
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Post by freefromprc on Sept 7, 2016 16:14:49 GMT
Freefromprc: I'll respond to your post in its entirety once I have a little more time, but I'd first like you to clarify a few things for me as I feel you may be misinterpreting what the BC says. Would you mind expanding on what exactly you have a problem with in each example you listed? If you do not feel comfortable doing so, please be patient with my response as I may not get to it until I get home from work - my breaks won't be sufficient enough time to fully formulate my response the way that I would like especially as I am not sure if you are or aren't misinterpreting what the BC is stating in each of those places. I am not misinterpreting the BC. I simply quoted it and highlighted interesting parts of it. For what its worth, there IS salvation outside of the PRC. I say this because the PRC refuses to name a true church beside itself and its sister churches, and the BC would teach that if you are not a member, you go to hell. The PRC does hold its ordinances higher than the word of God. Some examples (and there are a lot more) 1. The Church order commands the ministers to use the Heidelberg catechism in a sermon each week. The Bible doesn't even know what the Heidelberg catechism is. So if a minister refuses to preach using the HC, he will not be allowed to preach. This is not biblical, but an ordinance of man 2. Officebearers must use the PR schools (if there is one available) or they cannot be officebearers. This is not biblical, but an ordinance of man 3. Members are not allowed to be union members. This is not biblical, but an ordinance of man. 4. People who leave the PRC are shunned. Unless you make an assumption that the PRC is the only true church, this is not Biblical, but an ordinance of man. The BC teaches to shun non members. This is not Biblical. The BC teaches that the false and true church are easily distinguished. If it were easy, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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seeker
Seminary Student
Posts: 351
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Post by seeker on Sept 7, 2016 16:21:58 GMT
KristianWrights: Actually, I am a female. Again with the assumptions, eh? People who know me personally will know who I am if they stumble across this forum post. They're not who I'm worried about. I'm worried about the people who would target me for my beliefs (I am not trying to imply you). I doubt anyone who doesn't know me personally would be able to figure out who I am, as I have taken care to conceal my identity from the public. I am not aware of any fights going on in Hope church, so I cannot comment on that. You're right, my denomination is small compared to the world. I'm not going to say my religion, because that encompasses many more people. I wouldn't say we are without a doubt the people with the purest preaching - the PRCA is simply the denomination that has the purest preaching to my personal knowledge. I hope I'm correct in assuming you would say the same about your church? Four thousand people found it because that's where God led them. If you have a problem with that number, I'm not the one to take that up with. Again, I'm not saying those 4,000 people are the only ones who are God's children. Only God knows who are and who aren't his children. The best we can do is worship him the way that we feel is best. I would agree that I believe my church holds the keys of the kingdom, however, yours may as well. Those keys are for God to hand out, not men. because that's where god led them? if you are born into it and indoctrinated your entire life in it, is that god leading or is it because you were indoctrinated? a very high percentage of members who were not born into it simply married into it. so how many people are in it because god led them? does it make you wonder if you are there because it is all you know?
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Post by crusader on Sept 7, 2016 17:31:07 GMT
Freefromprc: I strongly disagree with your statement that I am an unusual PRC member. I don't think many people, at least in my social circle, are aware this forum exists at all. I sure hadn't ever heard of it. I stumbled across it when looking for a different forum that some friends of mine were members of. Even if they are aware of it, I don't think it's a fair statement to say that I am simply not mainstream PRC because I posted here. I would never say that I have significant personal knowledge of any denomination other than the PRC - I believe that requires a large amount of time dedicated to going to their services which I am not currently looking to do. Why would I, if I see nothing wrong with the church I am in? As a fairly awful example, say I am taking a multiple choice test. I can choose 1 of 4 answers, 2 of which are right. If I know choice A is right, why would I bother picking B, which I'm not sure about? If I am ever unsure of choice A, it is at that point that I will begin to look into picking another choice. I don't really know how many other churches I have attended - maybe 10? Not many, that's for sure. Most of my knowledge of other denomination's beliefs comes from my four years at a Christian college. I have many, many friends of other denominations. Since we do like to talk about our spiritual beliefs with one another, I have learned that many don't believe the same things I do. I know I feel right in my heart for going to the PRC and believing what I believe, but I also know that my friends feel very strongly in their hearts that their church is right. As long as they are truly doing what they believe is right I can't fault them for that. I cannot judge them, only God can do that. I feel my calling is to let them know my beliefs, and I have. I think you're mistaken in asking me to name physical churches and denominations as true/false. The true church consists of all the elect. I do believe the PRC represents the true church, however. In fact, here's a quote I'm sure you're familiar with. If a church fulfills these marks, they represent the true church. "The marks by which the true Church is known are these: if the pure doctrine of the gospel is preached therein; if she maintains the pure administration of the sacraments as instituted by Christ; if church discipline is exercised in punishing of sin: in short, if all things are managed according to the pure Word of God, all things contrary thereto rejected, and Jesus Christ acknowledged as the only Head of the Church. Hereby the true Church may certainly be known, from which no man has a right to separate himself." How do you feel about doctrinal quotes? Do you prefer to go with just Bible verses here? If you want to know who the PRC denomination affiliates themselves with, you can do that research yourself. Here's a reference with our sister churches listed. www.prca.org/missions/sister-churchesAre you sure you are in the PRC? How could you not have heard about this forum? Maybe you don't use facebook, or have not made it into the serious PR circles.
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Post by Skyfall on Sept 7, 2016 18:55:34 GMT
Freefromprc: I strongly disagree with your statement that I am an unusual PRC member. I don't think many people, at least in my social circle, are aware this forum exists at all. I sure hadn't ever heard of it. I stumbled across it when looking for a different forum that some friends of mine were members of. Even if they are aware of it, I don't think it's a fair statement to say that I am simply not mainstream PRC because I posted here. What PRC forum were you searching for when you "stumbled" across this one? Did you ever find the forum you were looking for? If so, which one was it? If not many people are talking about this forum, and the PRC has 4000 members, why does this forum have over 200 members? Based on membership of the PRC and the membership here, about 1 in 20 people of the PRC know about this forum. This does NOT include the many lurkers who are too afraid to sign up for an account. So how did you REALLY find this forum?
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Post by Joacom on Sept 7, 2016 22:14:34 GMT
KristianWrights: Actually, I am a female. Again with the assumptions, eh? People who know me personally will know who I am if they stumble across this forum post. They're not who I'm worried about. I'm worried about the people who would target me for my beliefs (I am not trying to imply you). I doubt anyone who doesn't know me personally would be able to figure out who I am, as I have taken care to conceal my identity from the public. I am not aware of any fights going on in Hope church, so I cannot comment on that. You're right, my denomination is small compared to the world. I'm not going to say my religion, because that encompasses many more people. I wouldn't say we are without a doubt the people with the purest preaching - the PRCA is simply the denomination that has the purest preaching to my personal knowledge. I hope I'm correct in assuming you would say the same about your church? Four thousand people found it because that's where God led them. If you have a problem with that number, I'm not the one to take that up with. Again, I'm not saying those 4,000 people are the only ones who are God's children. Only God knows who are and who aren't his children. The best we can do is worship him the way that we feel is best. I would agree that I believe my church holds the keys of the kingdom, however, yours may as well. Those keys are for God to hand out, not men. Let's be sincere here: God looks at the hearts of men.There is no such thing that God can lead any one to PRC; People are just raised into PRC through initiations or forced into PRC through marriage. That is why there is strives if a relative leave PRC/ the cultic nature of this sect of American of Dutch origin is that your are not a true Christian if you are not in their church.Tell me how many new converts do PRC get in a year?( I mean those who were not raised in PRC): This is a closed 99% American Dutch religious sect. Their International mission pretense is to go and take people from other churches lying to the them that they have a true religion. Now, the Moslems also claim to be the true religion. So which is which? Do not allow a ethnicity religious sect to lie to you
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Post by Admin on Sept 8, 2016 10:05:10 GMT
To begin my large post flurry I would like to say that I do not mean for any of my questions to be rhetorical or seem like jabs. Every question I have in my post for you guys is genuine, so please take it that way. I personally have a hard time conveying and understanding tone in writing so I thought I would just put a disclaimer to try and avoid misunderstandings. I don't know what each of you believe, and would like to gain more of an understanding so that we can move forwards rather than backwards. I have responded to many of your questions with what I feel is a fair argument. If you plan on replying on this post again, I would appreciate you saying if you agree with the argument I have presented to you, and if not, feel free to create a counter argument. If you create a post in reply to me without answering my question to you as either agree or disagree with a counter argument, I will assume you agree. To have a beneficial conversation that doesn't run in circles it is important that we do this. Finally, if you believe your question has been misunderstood or treated unfairly or I just plain missed it, please let me know and I will try to establish a better response for you. Hi anonuser, please feel free to use the quote button in replies. It makes for easier forum reading so that you don't have to go back and forth to read what the person said in regard to your reply. Thanks! The Admin Team
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Post by Joacom on Sept 8, 2016 20:18:30 GMT
Joacom: I'm sorry but I don't have the time tonight to write a response to you. Hopefully my responses to others answer a lot of your questions, and if not I'll try to get to it later. I would appreciate if you could edit your answer to use little better grammar though because I was having a hard time understanding it. Okay ,here I am again Much of PRC's teaching is based on the belief that the entire Christian church has become apostate, it is only PRC preserving the truth. Tell me about your conversion and how you felt especially lead by God into PRC? Explain why is it that almost 99.9%PRC member are of Dutch origin? Only Dutch people are lead into PRC?
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Post by Skyfall on Sept 8, 2016 21:02:35 GMT
Skyfall: #3 in mobile SERPs for "Protestant Reformed Christian forum" on Google. Of course, you may see different results based on your location/device and the personalization of Google results but I would have to imagine it's at least front page almost everywhere in North America. I'm not willing to disclose the forum name to you. You're accusing me of lying here already and I don't care for it to carry over into the other forum. Anyways, it has no real bearing or relevance here. We can easily carry on a conversation without you knowing that tidbit. Fair? That statistic means absolutely nothing. The only certainty there is that at least 95% of PR people have not signed up for the site. It's impossible to say who knows about it or has visited it. Any number would be a guess. No matter what doesn't change the validity of my statement that I hadn't heard of it before and that I don't think my friends are aware of it. Do you agree with that statement? If your responses are going to contain insults to my character, I'm not interested in continuing a conversation with you. If you can put our differences aside and have a respectful conversation with me feel free to join back in. Since you haven't given us the forum name for what you've been searching for, it's "fair" to assume what is the most logical conclusion coming from a PRC member, hence the cynicism. Many here have lost any respect for the PRC or the people that come out to defend the PRC - Why? Because of the many horrible things that have happened in the PRC throughout the years. Simply take the time to read first-hand accounts here at this forum. I can assure you many here have been severely hurt. So while you request "respectful conversation", you might very well get the "respect" that due anyone still left in the PRC after reading this site. You might also want to "respect" other people here rather than asking for "respect". Respect around here needs to be earned. So the question must be raised - Why are you here at all then?
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