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Post by Admin on Aug 17, 2017 14:46:09 GMT
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Post by Admin on Aug 17, 2017 14:56:59 GMT
In case the Word Doc link expires, below is a raw cut/paste.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 0:17:25 GMT
Very interesting, I noticed he did not clear up if it's abuse for a husband to forbid his wife from fellowship with family or friends who left the PR church whether under threat of excommunication or another unrelated reason. As far as I can tell he is saying if they were never members of the PR church it is harsh to forbid fellowship. Among some other odd ideas in there, at least their trying to do right.
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Post by christian on Sept 14, 2017 17:42:59 GMT
Wow. There is a lot of hateful slanderous tales being told on this site without a shred of proof. People claiming that they were told they would go to hell for leaving the pr church... I'm sorry but I just don't believe you. I've been in this church my whole life, and the PRest of the PRs would never say such a thing. Clearly personal feelings are clouding reality here!
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Post by judeverse24 on Sept 14, 2017 19:48:16 GMT
I think you're being very unfair to people on this forum. You think they're telling lies?
BTW, do you think Professor Engelsma's hand was forced regarding his speech in the above post about spousal abuse in the PRC, or did he do it out of the goodness of his heart?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 0:44:31 GMT
Wow. There is a lot of hateful slanderous tales being told on this site without a shred of proof. People claiming that they were told they would go to hell for leaving the pr church... I'm sorry but I just don't believe you. I've been in this church my whole life, and the PRest of the PRs would never say such a thing. Clearly personal feelings are clouding reality here! I agree that your personal feelings are clouding reality. There is a certain segment in that church that do say things like that, not everyone is like that. Since you never attempted to leave, I understand how you would not have heard someone say that to you, or probably in most cases they imply that to you without using the exact phrase. I have heard those ministers pray about people who are not in the PR church anymore, and they certainly do imply those that leave are not saved. So if they are not saved, where do you think they go? I don't think everyone head for head in the PR church acts like that, but I do think you would be surprised how many do.
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Post by soldierofChrist on Sept 15, 2017 1:38:48 GMT
Wow. There is a lot of hateful slanderous tales being told on this site without a shred of proof. People claiming that they were told they would go to hell for leaving the pr church... I'm sorry but I just don't believe you. I've been in this church my whole life, and the PRest of the PRs would never say such a thing. Clearly personal feelings are clouding reality here! If you have not read it I suggest you do You think so? . Consider Engelsma's book re the free offer. Have you read it? It's title is along the lines of Is Denial of the well meant offer Hyper Calvinism?and that IS categorical If you have not read it I suggest you do. He shows clearly that if you do not tow the PRCA line then you DO worship a false god and that IS categorical. Read it and see, Also I have repeatedly pointed the same out to him but he is unrepentant. Now please do not tell me that no minister etc in the PRCA has not read this lie. You have in his book all the proof you need. Look for an article I wrote in this forum. As well, as you read, look at and notice the barren Scriptural proof! Oh, it is shameful! His book is unbelievably bad. It would be the worst I have read of anyone who purports to be Reformed in any way and I do not say that lightly. He shows poverty in the realm of exegesis to a level that is utterly embarrassing. Please do not take my word for this only. And now, since you have asked for the proof you do have some research to do and then there should be questions all the way to confrontation. I expect to hear back from you on this. The proof is all there. Or do you agree with him anyway? Btw his mangling of the canon is it chapter 16?? May not be... re unfeigned is deplorable. Oh dear, I am so, so embarrassed by his 'work' and the fact of his unwillingness to see any fault though repeatedly shown biblically: that is worst.
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Post by judeverse24 on Sept 15, 2017 11:54:36 GMT
Wow. There is a lot of hateful slanderous tales being told on this site without a shred of proof. People claiming that they were told they would go to hell for leaving the pr church... I'm sorry but I just don't believe you. I've been in this church my whole life, and the PRest of the PRs would never say such a thing. Clearly personal feelings are clouding reality here! If a Christian couple in the PRC no longer believed in infant baptism and refused to have their baby baptized, do the PRC teach that the parents would go to hell if they were either excommunicated from the PRC or left the PRC to go to another denomination?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 16:31:52 GMT
Wow. There is a lot of hateful slanderous tales being told on this site without a shred of proof. People claiming that they were told they would go to hell for leaving the pr church... I'm sorry but I just don't believe you. I've been in this church my whole life, and the PRest of the PRs would never say such a thing. Clearly personal feelings are clouding reality here! You can probably find some articles written by PR ministers that claim if you leave the PR churches that just like as in a marriage, you are walking away from Christ. I grew up thinking the PR church was the only church that did not have errors in their main doctrines, because that idea was put in my head. Maybe it's true that they preach the purest doctrines, but as sinners it's normal to doubt. The important thing to me though, is it really doesn't matter if you have perfect doctrine if that is more important than striving to live a Christian Life. It then becomes work righteousness. Error free doctrines can not save you. I have to wonder if that is what happened in Hope church, I would not be surprised if most people were not sure which side to be on, the minister or elder. All they had to do was talk it out and be ready to forgive, it looks to me like a big misunderstanding. But of course stomping out error seemed to be more important.
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seeker
Seminary Student
Posts: 351
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Post by seeker on Sept 19, 2017 13:38:28 GMT
Wow. There is a lot of hateful slanderous tales being told on this site without a shred of proof. People claiming that they were told they would go to hell for leaving the pr church... I'm sorry but I just don't believe you. I've been in this church my whole life, and the PRest of the PRs would never say such a thing. Clearly personal feelings are clouding reality here! you are oblivious to the organization you are a part of. what do you want for proof?
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seeker
Seminary Student
Posts: 351
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Post by seeker on Sept 19, 2017 13:41:32 GMT
Wow. There is a lot of hateful slanderous tales being told on this site without a shred of proof. People claiming that they were told they would go to hell for leaving the pr church... I'm sorry but I just don't believe you. I've been in this church my whole life, and the PRest of the PRs would never say such a thing. Clearly personal feelings are clouding reality here! If a Christian couple in the PRC no longer believed in infant baptism and refused to have their baby baptized, do the PRC teach that the parents would go to hell if they were either excommunicated from the PRC or left the PRC to go to another denomination? the prc may not come out and say it but they would disown that parent, and certainly that father would never hold office or be on a school board etc. if you do not believe in their version of the covenant you will be labeled a heretic, and we all know that heretics go to hell, right?
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Post by cannalily on Sept 19, 2017 14:20:01 GMT
Wow. There is a lot of hateful slanderous tales being told on this site without a shred of proof. People claiming that they were told they would go to hell for leaving the pr church... I'm sorry but I just don't believe you. I've been in this church my whole life, and the PRest of the PRs would never say such a thing. Clearly personal feelings are clouding reality here! Please show where there is slander. Slander by definition: the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation. It's not slander if it's TRUE!
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Post by judeverse24 on Sept 19, 2017 18:05:30 GMT
If a Christian couple in the PRC no longer believed in infant baptism and refused to have their baby baptized. do the PRC teach that the parents would go to hell if they were either excommunicated from the PRC or left the PRC to go to another denomination? the prc may not come out and say it but they would disown that parent, and certainly that father would never hold office or be on a school board etc. if you do not believe in their version of the covenant you will be labeled a heretic, and we all know that heretics go to hell, right? Right. 'The New Testament equivalent of this punishment for those who refuse to baptize their children is Christian discipline, ending in excommunication from the church and thus from God's covenant people.' - Professor Herman Hanko.
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Post by cannalily on Sept 19, 2017 19:30:10 GMT
Wow. There is a lot of hateful slanderous tales being told on this site without a shred of proof. People claiming that they were told they would go to hell for leaving the pr church... I'm sorry but I just don't believe you. I've been in this church my whole life, and the PRest of the PRs would never say such a thing. Clearly personal feelings are clouding reality here! If abuse doesn't exist, according to your own idea of truth, why lecture on it?
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Post by judeverse24 on Sept 19, 2017 19:36:21 GMT
Wow. There is a lot of hateful slanderous tales being told on this site without a shred of proof. People claiming that they were told they would go to hell for leaving the pr church... I'm sorry but I just don't believe you. I've been in this church my whole life, and the PRest of the PRs would never say such a thing. Clearly personal feelings are clouding reality here! If abuse doesn't exist, according to your own idea of truth, why lecture on it? Hmmm good point, and why is he doing another one in October?
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