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Post by KristianWrights on Apr 14, 2018 17:40:05 GMT
If you are current PR members and would like to leave - what kind of support would you need? Financial, emotional, or physical.
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Post by archimedes on Apr 14, 2018 20:47:31 GMT
I have a really hard time answering this question. My view of church, Christianity, and life has changed so much. The biggest thing for me right now is I have no where to go. I have very few friends outside PRC. I have been to a few other churches several times, but none of them struck me as a place I needed to be. At the moment I get along with everyone right now, and I am discussing my differences when I am ready and can find the opportunity with others. It is not that often that I feel comfortable bringing it up and see the opportunity but I am working on it. Looking into my future, I really hope I find another church and friends with it, but to be honest church is not the most important thing to me right now. So long as my church continues to refrain from pressing me to get more involved or live their way (they know I have a lot of disagreements with the denomination and are probably scared to push me away), I think I shall not stir up any trouble. I am young and am trying not to make any hastily foolish decisions. I know I have not given a whole lot of information but if anyone has any thoughts or advice I would really love to hear it. For now I would have to say no, I would not leave yet.
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Post by cannalily on Apr 15, 2018 15:21:27 GMT
I have a really hard time answering this question. My view of church, Christianity, and life has changed so much. The biggest thing for me right now is I have no where to go. I have very few friends outside PRC. I have been to a few other churches several times, but none of them struck me as a place I needed to be. At the moment I get along with everyone right now, and I am discussing my differences when I am ready and can find the opportunity with others. It is not that often that I feel comfortable bringing it up and see the opportunity but I am working on it. Looking into my future, I really hope I find another church and friends with it, but to be honest church is not the most important thing to me right now. So long as my church continues to refrain from pressing me to get more involved or live their way (they know I have a lot of disagreements with the denomination and are probably scared to push me away), I think I shall not stir up any trouble. I am young and am trying not to make any hastily foolish decisions. I know I have not given a whole lot of information but if anyone has any thoughts or advice I would really love to hear it. For now I would have to say no, I would not leave yet. I got to say that I was completely numb for a number of months after I left. Going to ANY church turned my stomach. And when I finally did go to a Reformed baptist church the minister was lecturing the congregation on how to dress appropriately for the service. I was like, really? I was so done with silly rules. That being said, some of my BEST friends now come from outside of this church. And they're with me through thick and thin! So I would think that for me emotional support would be WAY more important for me - much like what this website gives to people.
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Post by dandelionwine on Apr 15, 2018 20:14:00 GMT
I would not.
I have been "lurking" for months now... because when I first came to this forum, I was shocked and speechless at the things that were being said. So I stayed... and read more... and am convinced that you guys are not lying - but speaking truth! And it breaks my heart and makes me sick. But leaving here and not coming back would be like putting my head in the sand. So I stay, and watch, and read. And wait for a door to open where I could help.
Here's the thing though... I have never experienced this kind of stuff firsthand. I have an awesome church family. We really do love each other and God. We are flawed and we sin and we have differing opinions in many areas, but we love each other and have a healthy church. (As far as I know!) And I love it. What I am taught lines up with scripture. When I disagree with stuff, my spouse and I talk it over. A lot of stuff we disagree with is the black/white vs grey areas. We acknowledge shades of grey, and it seems like a lot of the prc theologians need everything to be black and white. We are happy, so we will stay. And if/when the time comes, I would like to think that we will fight for the truth to defend the innocent.
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Post by notinacult on Apr 15, 2018 20:27:38 GMT
Have you done anything to help those that are struggling in your church? I can imagine there is at least one person or family in your church that needs help. I would not. I have been "lurking" for months now... because when I first came to this forum, I was shocked and speechless at the things that were being said. So I stayed... and read more... and am convinced that you guys are not lying - but speaking truth! And it breaks my heart and makes me sick. But leaving here and not coming back would be like putting my head in the sand. So I stay, and watch, and read. And wait for a door to open where I could help. Here's the thing though... I have never experienced this kind of stuff firsthand. I have an awesome church family. We really do love each other and God. We are flawed and we sin and we have differing opinions in many areas, but we love each other and have a healthy church. (As far as I know!) And I love it. What I am taught lines up with scripture. When I disagree with stuff, my spouse and I talk it over. A lot of stuff we disagree with is the black/white vs grey areas. We acknowledge shades of grey, and it seems like a lot of the prc theologians need everything to be black and white. We are happy, so we will stay. And if/when the time comes, I would like to think that we will fight for the truth to defend the innocent.
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Post by dandelionwine on Apr 15, 2018 20:44:43 GMT
Have you done anything to help those that are struggling in your church? I can imagine there is at least one person or family in your church that needs help. I would not. I have been "lurking" for months now... because when I first came to this forum, I was shocked and speechless at the things that were being said. So I stayed... and read more... and am convinced that you guys are not lying - but speaking truth! And it breaks my heart and makes me sick. But leaving here and not coming back would be like putting my head in the sand. So I stay, and watch, and read. And wait for a door to open where I could help. Here's the thing though... I have never experienced this kind of stuff firsthand. I have an awesome church family. We really do love each other and God. We are flawed and we sin and we have differing opinions in many areas, but we love each other and have a healthy church. (As far as I know!) And I love it. What I am taught lines up with scripture. When I disagree with stuff, my spouse and I talk it over. A lot of stuff we disagree with is the black/white vs grey areas. We acknowledge shades of grey, and it seems like a lot of the prc theologians need everything to be black and white. We are happy, so we will stay. And if/when the time comes, I would like to think that we will fight for the truth to defend the innocent. Yes, there are in invalids, people who have come in from outside the PRC, people with financial or family struggles, singles, widows and widowers, and everything in between. Just like there are in every PR church I'm sure. And over the years, we have done our best give them help where we can. And we have recieved a lot of love and support in my and my spouse's struggles as well. I can't think of a single person off hand that I cannot call up and set up a visit with from our church. I'm not saying we're perfect. Far from it. But I do feel like we're healthy. There have been times in the past where I have had to go to a member who started a rumor about me. She apologized, made it right, and we're still on good terms. I've been on the receiving end as well. A fellow member came to me about something that I had done to wrong them, I apologized, and we are still good friends. I don't think I am doing the very best I can - I have room to improve. But I do love my church family. Our church isn't going through the hard stuff that other churches are going through. Right now we are in a really good place. It may not be that way forever, so in the meantime I find it necessary for me to "keep up" with what others are dealing with, so that I can keep an eye out for hurting people.
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Post by notinacult on Apr 15, 2018 20:57:50 GMT
I was talking about the topics being discussed on this forum including spousal abuse and shunning that happens all of the time. It sounds like you are one of the few good people of the church that could promote change. Have you done anything to help those that are struggling in your church? I can imagine there is at least one person or family in your church that needs help. Yes, there are in invalids, people who have come in from outside the PRC, people with financial or family struggles, singles, widows and widowers, and everything in between. Just like there are in every PR church I'm sure. And over the years, we have done our best give them help where we can. And we have recieved a lot of love and support in my and my spouse's struggles as well. I can't think of a single person off hand that I cannot call up and set up a visit with from our church. I'm not saying we're perfect. Far from it. But I do feel like we're healthy. There have been times in the past where I have had to go to a member who started a rumor about me. She apologized, made it right, and we're still on good terms. I've been on the receiving end as well. A fellow member came to me about something that I had done to wrong them, I apologized, and we are still good friends. I don't think I am doing the very best I can - I have room to improve. But I do love my church family. Our church isn't going through the hard stuff that other churches are going through. Right now we are in a really good place. It may not be that way forever, so in the meantime I find it necessary for me to "keep up" with what others are dealing with, so that I can keep an eye out for hurting people.
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Post by dandelionwine on Apr 15, 2018 21:05:14 GMT
I was talking about the topics being discussed on this forum including spousal abuse and shunning that happens all of the time. It sounds like you are one of the few good people of the church that could promote change. Yes, there are in invalids, people who have come in from outside the PRC, people with financial or family struggles, singles, widows and widowers, and everything in between. Just like there are in every PR church I'm sure. And over the years, we have done our best give them help where we can. And we have recieved a lot of love and support in my and my spouse's struggles as well. I can't think of a single person off hand that I cannot call up and set up a visit with from our church. I'm not saying we're perfect. Far from it. But I do feel like we're healthy. There have been times in the past where I have had to go to a member who started a rumor about me. She apologized, made it right, and we're still on good terms. I've been on the receiving end as well. A fellow member came to me about something that I had done to wrong them, I apologized, and we are still good friends. I don't think I am doing the very best I can - I have room to improve. But I do love my church family. Our church isn't going through the hard stuff that other churches are going through. Right now we are in a really good place. It may not be that way forever, so in the meantime I find it necessary for me to "keep up" with what others are dealing with, so that I can keep an eye out for hurting people. Honestly, that's why I keep coming here. Before I found this forum, I had absolutely no idea that it really ever happened in the PRC! I feel like I was blind! I don't know anyone currently in the situation, and that's part of the reason why I come here. I've come to change a little bit of how I approach people so hopefully they feel more comfortable about coming to me with things so that I don't give off a judgemental vibe unintentionally. I have also learned to really listen and ask questions and be open-minded instead of immediately jumping to the stock PR conclusion / response. I want to be helpful, but there's just no one right now that I know that I need to help.
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Post by notinacult on Apr 15, 2018 21:32:59 GMT
I was the same way when I was in the pr church. Thought there was a few cases of shunning and little abuse. But since leaving and reading the forum, it’s shocking how much it happens. Has the conference on abuse helped? Or is it going in one ear and right out the other? I was talking about the topics being discussed on this forum including spousal abuse and shunning that happens all of the time. It sounds like you are one of the few good people of the church that could promote change. Honestly, that's why I keep coming here. Before I found this forum, I had absolutely no idea that it really ever happened in the PRC! I feel like I was blind! I don't know anyone currently in the situation, and that's part of the reason why I come here. I've come to change a little bit of how I approach people so hopefully they feel more comfortable about coming to me with things so that I don't give off a judgemental vibe unintentionally. I have also learned to really listen and ask questions and be open-minded instead of immediately jumping to the stock PR conclusion / response. I want to be helpful, but there's just no one right now that I know that I need to help.
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Post by Admin on Apr 15, 2018 22:43:35 GMT
I would not. I have been "lurking" for months now... because when I first came to this forum, I was shocked and speechless at the things that were being said. So I stayed... and read more... and am convinced that you guys are not lying - but speaking truth! And it breaks my heart and makes me sick. But leaving here and not coming back would be like putting my head in the sand. So I stay, and watch, and read. And wait for a door to open where I could help. Here's the thing though... I have never experienced this kind of stuff firsthand. I have an awesome church family. We really do love each other and God. We are flawed and we sin and we have differing opinions in many areas, but we love each other and have a healthy church. (As far as I know!) And I love it. What I am taught lines up with scripture. When I disagree with stuff, my spouse and I talk it over. A lot of stuff we disagree with is the black/white vs grey areas. We acknowledge shades of grey, and it seems like a lot of the prc theologians need everything to be black and white. We are happy, so we will stay. And if/when the time comes, I would like to think that we will fight for the truth to defend the innocent. Hi Danelionwine, Thanks for posting! The Admin Team
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Post by dandelionwine on Apr 16, 2018 0:10:47 GMT
Honestly, I'm not sure. We have been talking about it way more in our social circles, and it has come up way more since the lecture, and is easier to bring up "naturally". Just not sure about the lasting effects. It is being brought up in sermons more, too. Which is a good thing. And I am talking about abuse specifically. Nothing has come up at all about shunning.
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Post by freefromprc on Apr 16, 2018 2:35:01 GMT
Honestly, I'm not sure. We have been talking about it way more in our social circles, and it has come up way more since the lecture, and is easier to bring up "naturally". Just not sure about the lasting effects. It is being brought up in sermons more, too. Which is a good thing. And I am talking about abuse specifically. Nothing has come up at all about shunning. Dealing with the abuse is a big step. I think its a formality tho, dealing with the outcry. That is very deep seated and will take generations to turn the tide - if then. It is very well hidden, and if it is in a household, it will not come up in family visits, and if brought up to elders who are also guilty of it it will not be addressed. So sad.
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Post by crusader on Apr 16, 2018 2:57:31 GMT
I would not. I have been "lurking" for months now... because when I first came to this forum, I was shocked and speechless at the things that were being said. So I stayed... and read more... and am convinced that you guys are not lying - but speaking truth! And it breaks my heart and makes me sick. But leaving here and not coming back would be like putting my head in the sand. So I stay, and watch, and read. And wait for a door to open where I could help. Here's the thing though... I have never experienced this kind of stuff firsthand. I have an awesome church family. We really do love each other and God. We are flawed and we sin and we have differing opinions in many areas, but we love each other and have a healthy church. (As far as I know!) And I love it. What I am taught lines up with scripture. When I disagree with stuff, my spouse and I talk it over. A lot of stuff we disagree with is the black/white vs grey areas. We acknowledge shades of grey, and it seems like a lot of the prc theologians need everything to be black and white. We are happy, so we will stay. And if/when the time comes, I would like to think that we will fight for the truth to defend the innocent. It all depends on which circle you are part of. There are a lot of groups - and people know when to talk and when not to talk.
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Post by gratefullyfree on Apr 16, 2018 4:11:09 GMT
I would not. I have been "lurking" for months now... because when I first came to this forum, I was shocked and speechless at the things that were being said. So I stayed... and read more... and am convinced that you guys are not lying - but speaking truth! And it breaks my heart and makes me sick. But leaving here and not coming back would be like putting my head in the sand. So I stay, and watch, and read. And wait for a door to open where I could help. Here's the thing though... I have never experienced this kind of stuff firsthand. I have an awesome church family. We really do love each other and God. We are flawed and we sin and we have differing opinions in many areas, but we love each other and have a healthy church. (As far as I know!) And I love it. What I am taught lines up with scripture. When I disagree with stuff, my spouse and I talk it over. A lot of stuff we disagree with is the black/white vs grey areas. We acknowledge shades of grey, and it seems like a lot of the prc theologians need everything to be black and white. We are happy, so we will stay. And if/when the time comes, I would like to think that we will fight for the truth to defend the innocent. Dandelionwine, I appreciate your being willing to keep an open mind and wanting to understand more about the abuse occurring within the PRC. You could have left and dismissed all we were saying, but you chose to stay and learn more, and believe that we are telling the truth of what happened to us. I truly respect you for that. I hope that your questioning helps to make positive changes in the PRC.
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Post by dandelionwine on Apr 16, 2018 12:17:35 GMT
Crusader... it certainly seems that that way! And being a woman makes it even more so I think.
Gratefullyfree... thanks for the kind words and encouragement.
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