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Post by archimedes on Apr 18, 2018 21:07:35 GMT
I relate to this a lot. Sermons by anyone I hear are mostly religious, not ever about being a good person like Jesus. It's all God demands or condemns this or that, and the theme seems to be those who are different than the preacher are worse off in whatever way for whatever reason and maybe they use scripture to prove it. But now when I read the Bible the whole idea is to be like Jesus and love everyone regardless of their beliefs, actions, or whatever. I often wonder if it is just me and my crazy ideas since everyone else thinks Christianity is this religious thing where you follow as many do's and dont's you can find in the Bible. It's real encouraging to read this that other people had similar struggles. That's what I love about this site. I got to say that I was completely numb for a number of months after I left. Going to ANY church turned my stomach. And when I finally did go to a Reformed baptist church the minister was lecturing the congregation on how to dress appropriately for the service. I was like, really? I was so done with silly rules. That being said, some of my BEST friends now come from outside of this church. And they're with me through thick and thin! So I would think that for me emotional support would be WAY more important for me - much like what this website gives to people.
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Post by notinacult on Apr 19, 2018 0:33:46 GMT
No most other churches think like you. That’s why the prs condemn them and don’t say that they are a true church. They are just a feel good church. You will feel more love from other members in any other church than in a pr church. It was weird at first but it’s becomes normal after a while. Thinking about the past while in a pr church it’s said how all of the members don’t know what love really is. They just think obeying the rules of the church means you “love” God. The only thing they think is love is praying for you. I relate to this a lot. Sermons by anyone I hear are mostly religious, not ever about being a good person like Jesus. It's all God demands or condemns this or that, and the theme seems to be those who are different than the preacher are worse off in whatever way for whatever reason and maybe they use scripture to prove it. But now when I read the Bible the whole idea is to be like Jesus and love everyone regardless of their beliefs, actions, or whatever. I often wonder if it is just me and my crazy ideas since everyone else thinks Christianity is this religious thing where you follow as many do's and dont's you can find in the Bible. It's real encouraging to read this that other people had similar struggles. That's what I love about this site. I got to say that I was completely numb for a number of months after I left. Going to ANY church turned my stomach. And when I finally did go to a Reformed baptist church the minister was lecturing the congregation on how to dress appropriately for the service. I was like, really? I was so done with silly rules. That being said, some of my BEST friends now come from outside of this church. And they're with me through thick and thin! So I would think that for me emotional support would be WAY more important for me - much like what this website gives to people.
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Post by gratefullyfree on Apr 20, 2018 0:21:49 GMT
I remember, even after being out of the PRC for a long time, how strange it felt going into a new church. Everyone's kindness felt almost suspicious, like there was an agenda, and the goal of loving God and trying to live like Jesus almost felt too simplistic. And everyone was smiling and hugging. Where were the rules? Where was the judgment for the people who didn't make it there? Even though I had left the PRC, I still had some of the attitudes.
Since then, I do see the love, I long to spend time with people from my church. We volunteer in the community, we visit the sick, we help hold each other up emotionally. I'm not looking over my shoulder for the elder who will correct my statements or tell me that I'm not good enough. I'm not saying people in the PRC don't love, I just don't see it expressed as readily.
How stiff and formal their love is in the PRC. How long I stayed thinking I was doing something wrong because I wasn't feeling love or joy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2018 1:17:13 GMT
I remember, even after being out of the PRC for a long time, how strange it felt going into a new church. Everyone's kindness felt almost suspicious, like there was an agenda, and the goal of loving God and trying to live like Jesus almost felt too simplistic. And everyone was smiling and hugging. Where were the rules? Where was the judgment for the people who didn't make it there? Even though I had left the PRC, I still had some of the attitudes. Since then, I do see the love, I long to spend time with people from my church. We volunteer in the community, we visit the sick, we help hold each other up emotionally. I'm not looking over my shoulder for the elder who will correct my statements or tell me that I'm not good enough. I'm not saying people in the PRC don't love, I just don't see it expressed as readily. How stiff and formal their love is in the PRC. How long I stayed thinking I was doing something wrong because I wasn't feeling love or joy. Amen.
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Post by archimedes on Apr 20, 2018 19:21:38 GMT
I remember, even after being out of the PRC for a long time, how strange it felt going into a new church. Everyone's kindness felt almost suspicious, like there was an agenda, and the goal of loving God and trying to live like Jesus almost felt too simplistic. And everyone was smiling and hugging. Where were the rules? Where was the judgment for the people who didn't make it there? Even though I had left the PRC, I still had some of the attitudes. Since then, I do see the love, I long to spend time with people from my church. We volunteer in the community, we visit the sick, we help hold each other up emotionally. I'm not looking over my shoulder for the elder who will correct my statements or tell me that I'm not good enough. I'm not saying people in the PRC don't love, I just don't see it expressed as readily. How stiff and formal their love is in the PRC. How long I stayed thinking I was doing something wrong because I wasn't feeling love or joy. I needed to hear this thanks.
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Post by gratefullyfree on Apr 22, 2018 2:47:43 GMT
I didn't really answer the poll question in my previous post. Here are my thoughts: 1.) Emotional support-I needed a lot of emotional support when I first left. Anyone in my immediate friend circle outside of the church could not relate to the emotional beating I had taken at the hands of the reverend, and did not understand how alone I felt. Of course, everyone inside the church avoided/shunned me when I stopped coming. I don't think this site was available at that time, or if it was, I wasn't aware of it. The kind of emotional support received here is so important-I wish I had it when I left. Maybe a counselor at a reduced rate would help as well. 2.) Financial support-I was lucky because I had a career and was able to provide for my family. However, there are many in the PRC, as well as anywhere, who do not have the means, especially many women in the PRC. I knew of one woman who was not allowed to carry any money on her because her husband thought she would just spend it on frivolous things, like clothes. She did not have the means to leave, or unfortunately, the education to support herself and her children if she left. I'm not suggesting a handout, but some kind of employment assistance would be helpful I believe. Maybe a restaurant in the area that would be willing to hire some of these women (or men) at least part-time, or a navigator that could help them sign up for financial assistance or healthcare at the very least. A listing of food pantries and shelters as well. 3.) Legal support-Whether it be the police stepping in when the church refuses to acknowledge physical abuse, or a lawyer who works at a free or reduced rate to help with child custody issues, it would be helpful to at least point people leaving the church to the right resources. While I haven't seen it mentioned on this site, I wonder if child custody fears could be an issue for some that keeps them from leaving. If I felt that I had to battle my spouse, as well as the church for my children, I may think twice about leaving because I wouldn't want to put my children through this.
The thread in Family Visitation is very helpful to those considering leaving. I will add to those resources as I discover them.
Thank you to everyone on this site who has been a support to me. You will never know how truly helpful you all have been.
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Post by scared2bknown on Apr 23, 2018 2:08:07 GMT
Bless this website. I am still in the PRC and desperately want out. However, i am petrified to make a move. I am positive if I push the issue with the hubby, we would make the change, but at what cost? Will we lose all off our friends and family? And what about the shunning. I have watched this first-hand with other families and it is devastating. When I look around at the congregation during church, I see unhappy faces or boredom. It's not a joyful place to be every Sunday. I want to feel spiritually uplifted, but end up walking away feeling defeated. Thank you for allowing me to vent. At least I know I can speak honestly about my feelings here without judgment.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 22:17:33 GMT
Bless this website. I am still in the PRC and desperately want out. However, i am petrified to make a move. I am positive if I push the issue with the hubby, we would make the change, but at what cost? Will we lose all off our friends and family? And what about the shunning. I have watched this first-hand with other families and it is devastating. When I look around at the congregation during church, I see unhappy faces or boredom. It's not a joyful place to be every Sunday. I want to feel spiritually uplifted, but end up walking away feeling defeated. Thank you for allowing me to vent. At least I know I can speak honestly about my feelings here without judgment. "...but walk away feeling defeated". This, this is their intentions. They've got you and they know it. The prc is a terrible place to try and be a Christian, it's so tiring. It's a pharisaical entity, steeped in fear and threats from "elders" and "reverends" who have no business or qualifications to delve where they are want to go. Give the men a title and watch their heads grow like pharisees on the corner. Most are way over their heads, and they compensate for this by a controlling, demanding, even mean demeanor, as if they deserve your respect and subsurvient manner regardless of their ineptitude. "The greatest among you will be your servant." - Matthew 23:11
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Post by freestuff on Apr 24, 2018 5:59:25 GMT
Bless this website. I am still in the PRC and desperately want out. However, i am petrified to make a move. I am positive if I push the issue with the hubby, we would make the change, but at what cost? Will we lose all off our friends and family? And what about the shunning. I have watched this first-hand with other families and it is devastating. When I look around at the congregation during church, I see unhappy faces or boredom. It's not a joyful place to be every Sunday. I want to feel spiritually uplifted, but end up walking away feeling defeated. Thank you for allowing me to vent. At least I know I can speak honestly about my feelings here without judgment. HI all! Long time lurker, first time poster here. The words “I see unhappy faces or boredom” really caught my eye. One thing I’ve picked up in life is that sometimes a good way to analyze something is to determine what ISN’T there. Let’s take a closer look at these 45 minute sermons. You’ll see 3 points in your bulletin (half the time the theme is the covenant or Arminianism), but then what do you actually hear? Sure, you’ll get the occasional mini lecture on Arminius or the sacraments. You’ll get a short diatribe against academia or the church world at large. They may even go into the specifics of what another church is doing wrong. These will be the parts of the sermon you remember. In most cases you will learn nothing new. Now here’s the kicker, these parts that you remember will only constitute about 15 minutes of the sermon. So what else does the sermon consist of? Well………..very little if anything. In a way it’s hard to accurately describe a PR sermon because you need to describe the absence of something. Most of the PRC ministers have developed the ability to speak without actually saying anything. They string phrases together that don’t build to anything, but instead simply meander all over the lexicon of Reformed Theology. To those who aren’t discerning it gets described as “spiritual nourishment” or “the pure preaching of the word.” This free floating, unguided verbal wandering through dogma and doctrine is exceptionally light on content. These sermons are preceded by a long prayer which largely utilizes the same formula. Also preceding the sermon is lots of organ music, which, although pretty in its own way, also kind of goes nowhere. The music in the Psalter was written 150 or so years ago and all sounds the same. All this leads me to conclude the central features of a typical PR service are a lack of stimulation and… NOTHING. That’s right… there’s …nothing…there. For all the PRC esteems THE TRUTH their services are largely devoid of content. Most PRC members are bored out of their minds and don’t even know it.
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Post by judeverse24 on Apr 24, 2018 7:08:48 GMT
Bless this website. I am still in the PRC and desperately want out. However, i am petrified to make a move. I am positive if I push the issue with the hubby, we would make the change, but at what cost? Will we lose all off our friends and family? And what about the shunning. I have watched this first-hand with other families and it is devastating. When I look around at the congregation during church, I see unhappy faces or boredom. It's not a joyful place to be every Sunday. I want to feel spiritually uplifted, but end up walking away feeling defeated. Thank you for allowing me to vent. At least I know I can speak honestly about my feelings here without judgment. HI all! Long time lurker, first time poster here. The words “I see unhappy faces or boredom” really caught my eye. One thing I’ve picked up in life is that sometimes a good way to analyze something is to determine what ISN’T there. Let’s take a closer look at these 45 minute sermons. You’ll see 3 points in your bulletin (half the time the theme is the covenant or Arminianism), but then what do you actually hear? Sure, you’ll get the occasional mini lecture on Arminius or the sacraments. You’ll get a short diatribe against academia or the church world at large. They may even go into the specifics of what another church is doing wrong. These will be the parts of the sermon you remember. In most cases you will learn nothing new. Now here’s the kicker, these parts that you remember will only constitute about 15 minutes of the sermon. So what else does the sermon consist of? Well………..very little if anything. In a way it’s hard to accurately describe a PR sermon because you need to describe the absence of something. Most of the PRC ministers have developed the ability to speak without actually saying anything. They string phrases together that don’t build to anything, but instead simply meander all over the lexicon of Reformed Theology. To those who aren’t discerning it gets described as “spiritual nourishment” or “the pure preaching of the word.” This free floating, unguided verbal wandering through dogma and doctrine is exceptionally light on content. These sermons are preceded by a long prayer which largely utilizes the same formula. Also preceding the sermon is lots of organ music, which, although pretty in its own way, also kind of goes nowhere. The music in the Psalter was written 150 or so years ago and all sounds the same. All this leads me to conclude the central features of a typical PR service are a lack of stimulation and… NOTHING. That’s right… there’s …nothing…there. For all the PRC esteems THE TRUTH their services are largely devoid of content. Most PRC members are bored out of their minds and don’t even know it. Hi, freestuff. Nothing wrong with a bit of lurking. Good post. You've hit the nail on the head several times there.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 11:42:59 GMT
Bless this website. I am still in the PRC and desperately want out. However, i am petrified to make a move. I am positive if I push the issue with the hubby, we would make the change, but at what cost? Will we lose all off our friends and family? And what about the shunning. I have watched this first-hand with other families and it is devastating. When I look around at the congregation during church, I see unhappy faces or boredom. It's not a joyful place to be every Sunday. I want to feel spiritually uplifted, but end up walking away feeling defeated. Thank you for allowing me to vent. At least I know I can speak honestly about my feelings here without judgment. HI all! Long time lurker, first time poster here. The words “I see unhappy faces or boredom” really caught my eye. One thing I’ve picked up in life is that sometimes a good way to analyze something is to determine what ISN’T there. Let’s take a closer look at these 45 minute sermons. You’ll see 3 points in your bulletin (half the time the theme is the covenant or Arminianism), but then what do you actually hear? Sure, you’ll get the occasional mini lecture on Arminius or the sacraments. You’ll get a short diatribe against academia or the church world at large. They may even go into the specifics of what another church is doing wrong. These will be the parts of the sermon you remember. In most cases you will learn nothing new. Now here’s the kicker, these parts that you remember will only constitute about 15 minutes of the sermon. So what else does the sermon consist of? Well………..very little if anything. In a way it’s hard to accurately describe a PR sermon because you need to describe the absence of something. Most of the PRC ministers have developed the ability to speak without actually saying anything. They string phrases together that don’t build to anything, but instead simply meander all over the lexicon of Reformed Theology. To those who aren’t discerning it gets described as “spiritual nourishment” or “the pure preaching of the word.” This free floating, unguided verbal wandering through dogma and doctrine is exceptionally light on content. These sermons are preceded by a long prayer which largely utilizes the same formula. Also preceding the sermon is lots of organ music, which, although pretty in its own way, also kind of goes nowhere. The music in the Psalter was written 150 or so years ago and all sounds the same. All this leads me to conclude the central features of a typical PR service are a lack of stimulation and… NOTHING. That’s right… there’s …nothing…there. For all the PRC esteems THE TRUTH their services are largely devoid of content. Most PRC members are bored out of their minds and don’t even know it. Their ministers too, in order to reach the full 45 minutes, have learned the art of repetition. There are many ways to say the exact same thing...over...and over...and over.
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Post by gratefullyfree on Apr 24, 2018 12:21:19 GMT
Bless this website. I am still in the PRC and desperately want out. However, i am petrified to make a move. I am positive if I push the issue with the hubby, we would make the change, but at what cost? Will we lose all off our friends and family? And what about the shunning. I have watched this first-hand with other families and it is devastating. When I look around at the congregation during church, I see unhappy faces or boredom. It's not a joyful place to be every Sunday. I want to feel spiritually uplifted, but end up walking away feeling defeated. Thank you for allowing me to vent. At least I know I can speak honestly about my feelings here without judgment. HI all! Long time lurker, first time poster here. The words “I see unhappy faces or boredom” really caught my eye. One thing I’ve picked up in life is that sometimes a good way to analyze something is to determine what ISN’T there. Let’s take a closer look at these 45 minute sermons. You’ll see 3 points in your bulletin (half the time the theme is the covenant or Arminianism), but then what do you actually hear? Sure, you’ll get the occasional mini lecture on Arminius or the sacraments. You’ll get a short diatribe against academia or the church world at large. They may even go into the specifics of what another church is doing wrong. These will be the parts of the sermon you remember. In most cases you will learn nothing new. Now here’s the kicker, these parts that you remember will only constitute about 15 minutes of the sermon. So what else does the sermon consist of? Well………..very little if anything. In a way it’s hard to accurately describe a PR sermon because you need to describe the absence of something. Most of the PRC ministers have developed the ability to speak without actually saying anything. They string phrases together that don’t build to anything, but instead simply meander all over the lexicon of Reformed Theology. To those who aren’t discerning it gets described as “spiritual nourishment” or “the pure preaching of the word.” This free floating, unguided verbal wandering through dogma and doctrine is exceptionally light on content. These sermons are preceded by a long prayer which largely utilizes the same formula. Also preceding the sermon is lots of organ music, which, although pretty in its own way, also kind of goes nowhere. The music in the Psalter was written 150 or so years ago and all sounds the same. All this leads me to conclude the central features of a typical PR service are a lack of stimulation and… NOTHING. That’s right… there’s …nothing…there. For all the PRC esteems THE TRUTH their services are largely devoid of content. Most PRC members are bored out of their minds and don’t even know it. Welcome freestuff. I had to laugh when you said people call it "the pure preaching of the word." My husband would always say that, while I heard nothing but repetitive nonsense that sounded the same every week, and never really went anywhere. He never could explain what he got out of it either, but would shake his head at me and tell me that I wasn't trying hard enough. I took notes, thinking I must've been missing something, or that I was just too dense to get it, but nope, still nothing there. Thanks for confirming that for me.
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Post by maggie on Apr 24, 2018 15:09:33 GMT
didn't really answer the poll question in my previous post. Here are my thoughts: 1.) Emotional support-I needed a lot of emotional support when I first left. Anyone in my immediate friend circle outside of the church could not relate to the emotional beating I had taken at the hands of the reverend, and did not understand how alone I felt. Of course, everyone inside the church avoided/shunned me when I stopped coming. I don't think this site was available at that time, or if it was, I wasn't aware of it. The kind of emotional support received here is so important-I wish I had it when I left. Maybe a counselor at a reduced rate would help as well. 2.) Financial support-I was lucky because I had a career and was able to provide for my family. However, there are many in the PRC, as well as anywhere, who do not have the means, especially many women in the PRC. I knew of one woman who was not allowed to carry any money on her because her husband thought she would just spend it on frivolous things, like clothes. She did not have the means to leave, or unfortunately, the education to support herself and her children if she left. I'm not suggesting a handout, but some kind of employment assistance would be helpful I believe. Maybe a restaurant in the area that would be willing to hire some of these women (or men) at least part-time, or a navigator that could help them sign up for financial assistance or healthcare at the very least. A listing of food pantries and shelters as well. 3.) Legal support-Whether it be the police stepping in when the church refuses to acknowledge physical abuse, or a lawyer who works at a free or reduced rate to help with child custody issues, it would be helpful to at least point people leaving the church to the right resources. While I haven't seen it mentioned on this site, I wonder if child custody fears could be an issue for some that keeps them from leaving. If I felt that I had to battle my spouse, as well as the church for my children, I may think twice about leaving because I wouldn't want to put my children through this.
The thread in Family Visitation is very helpful to those considering leaving. I will add to those resources as I discover them.
Thank you to everyone on this site who has been a support to me. You will never know how truly helpful you all have been. [/quote]
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Post by maggie on Apr 24, 2018 15:10:36 GMT
I have a really hard time answering this question. My view of church, Christianity, and life has changed so much. The biggest thing for me right now is I have no where to go. I have very few friends outside PRC. I have been to a few other churches several times, but none of them struck me as a place I needed to be. At the moment I get along with everyone right now, and I am discussing my differences when I am ready and can find the opportunity with others. It is not that often that I feel comfortable bringing it up and see the opportunity but I am working on it. Looking into my future, I really hope I find another church and friends with it, but to be honest church is not the most important thing to me right now. So long as my church continues to refrain from pressing me to get more involved or live their way (they know I have a lot of disagreements with the denomination and are probably scared to push me away), I think I shall not stir up any trouble. I am young and am trying not to make any hastily foolish decisions. I know I have not given a whole lot of information but if anyone has any thoughts or advice I would really love to hear it. For now I would have to say no, I would not leave yet. I got to say that I was completely numb for a number of months after I left. Going to ANY church turned my stomach. And when I finally did go to a Reformed baptist church the minister was lecturing the congregation on how to dress appropriately for the service. I was like, really? I was so done with silly rules. That being said, some of my BEST friends now come from outside of this church. And they're with me through thick and thin! So I would think that for me emotional support would be WAY more important for me - much like what this website gives to people.
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Post by Admin on Apr 24, 2018 19:30:26 GMT
Bless this website. I am still in the PRC and desperately want out. However, i am petrified to make a move. I am positive if I push the issue with the hubby, we would make the change, but at what cost? Will we lose all off our friends and family? And what about the shunning. I have watched this first-hand with other families and it is devastating. When I look around at the congregation during church, I see unhappy faces or boredom. It's not a joyful place to be every Sunday. I want to feel spiritually uplifted, but end up walking away feeling defeated. Thank you for allowing me to vent. At least I know I can speak honestly about my feelings here without judgment. HI all! Long time lurker, first time poster here. The words “I see unhappy faces or boredom” really caught my eye. One thing I’ve picked up in life is that sometimes a good way to analyze something is to determine what ISN’T there. Let’s take a closer look at these 45 minute sermons. You’ll see 3 points in your bulletin (half the time the theme is the covenant or Arminianism), but then what do you actually hear? Sure, you’ll get the occasional mini lecture on Arminius or the sacraments. You’ll get a short diatribe against academia or the church world at large. They may even go into the specifics of what another church is doing wrong. These will be the parts of the sermon you remember. In most cases you will learn nothing new. Now here’s the kicker, these parts that you remember will only constitute about 15 minutes of the sermon. So what else does the sermon consist of? Well………..very little if anything. In a way it’s hard to accurately describe a PR sermon because you need to describe the absence of something. Most of the PRC ministers have developed the ability to speak without actually saying anything. They string phrases together that don’t build to anything, but instead simply meander all over the lexicon of Reformed Theology. To those who aren’t discerning it gets described as “spiritual nourishment” or “the pure preaching of the word.” This free floating, unguided verbal wandering through dogma and doctrine is exceptionally light on content. These sermons are preceded by a long prayer which largely utilizes the same formula. Also preceding the sermon is lots of organ music, which, although pretty in its own way, also kind of goes nowhere. The music in the Psalter was written 150 or so years ago and all sounds the same. All this leads me to conclude the central features of a typical PR service are a lack of stimulation and… NOTHING. That’s right… there’s …nothing…there. For all the PRC esteems THE TRUTH their services are largely devoid of content. Most PRC members are bored out of their minds and don’t even know it. Hi Freestuff, Thanks for posting! The Admin Team
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