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Condition
Jul 19, 2018 16:39:43 GMT
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Post by maggie on Jul 19, 2018 16:39:43 GMT
I have a question. I read in Genesis 28:20-22 'Then Jacob made a vow, saying, 'If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear sothat I return safely to my father's house, THEN the Lord will be my God and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God's house....'. The 'if' at the beginning sounds conditional to me and how does that line up with predestination in Romans 8. If he was a child of God there would be no condition, right?
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Post by cannalily on Jul 20, 2018 10:40:12 GMT
I have a question. I read in Genesis 28:20-22 'Then Jacob made a vow, saying, 'If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear sothat I return safely to my father's house, THEN the Lord will be my God and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God's house....'. The 'if' at the beginning sounds conditional to me and how does that line up with predestination in Romans 8. If he was a child of God there would be no condition, right? I think the PRC would say that the genesis story was in fact conditional, and Romans 8 made it non-conditional based on Christ's work.
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Post by maggie on Jul 20, 2018 13:12:29 GMT
I have a question. I read in Genesis 28:20-22 'Then Jacob made a vow, saying, 'If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear sothat I return safely to my father's house, THEN the Lord will be my God and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God's house....'. The 'if' at the beginning sounds conditional to me and how does that line up with predestination in Romans 8. If he was a child of God there would be no condition, right? I think the PRC would say that the genesis story was in fact conditional, and Romans 8 made it non-conditional based on Christ's work. Hmmm, OK, thanks!
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Post by throwaway2018 on Jul 20, 2018 14:00:26 GMT
This is all I could find on what the PRC would say:
"Called to keep the freewill promises we have made in the covenant of grace! Such is the import of this passage. The word for "vow" here signifies a voluntary promise made to God to do something special or to give something special beyond what was ordinarily required. Such vows were not mandatory, but voluntary, as verses 22, 23 indicate. In addition to his and her regular duties in the covenant, the children of God could also pledge themselves to do a special act or to give a special gift, something God had not specifically demanded. Such vows could take the form of a special offering (Lev. 27), becoming a Nazarite (Num. 6; cf. Hannah, I Sam. 1), giving possessions (cf. Jacob,Gen. 28:20- 22), fasting, and marriage (Num. 30). "
So maybe they'd say that it was a conditional vow that if God cared for Jacob, then Jacob will create a house for God? Not really sure.
Along those same lines, I've always been amused by the story where Jacob wrestles God, and God realizes he cannot overpower Jacob in a fair fight. God therefore pulls out his magic cheat card so that he can win. Gen 32:22-32
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Post by maggie on Jul 20, 2018 14:09:43 GMT
This is all I could find on what the PRC would say: "Called to keep the freewill promises we have made in the covenant of grace! Such is the import of this passage. The word for "vow" here signifies a voluntary promise made to God to do something special or to give something special beyond what was ordinarily required. Such vows were not mandatory, but voluntary, as verses 22, 23 indicate. In addition to his and her regular duties in the covenant, the children of God could also pledge themselves to do a special act or to give a special gift, something God had not specifically demanded. Such vows could take the form of a special offering (Lev. 27), becoming a Nazarite (Num. 6; cf. Hannah, I Sam. 1), giving possessions (cf. Jacob,Gen. 28:20- 22), fasting, and marriage (Num. 30). " So maybe they'd say that it was a conditional vow that if God cared for Jacob, then Jacob will create a house for God? Not really sure. Along those same lines, I've always been amused by the story where Jacob wrestles God, and God realizes he cannot overpower Jacob in a fair fight. God therefore pulls out his magic cheat card so that he can win. Gen 32:22-32 The problem I see with contradictory verses is that we depend on men to interpret them. And in PRC, what those on the pulpit say is the truth.
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Post by throwaway2018 on Jul 20, 2018 14:18:22 GMT
I completely agree Maggie. Trying to solve contradictory verses is exactly why there are so many different denominations today who all believe they are the only "True Church".
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Post by soldierofChrist on Jul 21, 2018 8:26:58 GMT
When you refer back to v10-15 you see that Jacob is responding to the revelation given to him. It is a passage that looks primarily at his vow and it is if God does x then I will do y. The covenant that God has established with the elect is certainly unconditional.
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