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Post by notinacult on Mar 13, 2019 23:29:51 GMT
So they don't have enough money to get a new sign but can afford a new church? Did they change to become a CRC church instead? Are they "bearing false witness" by advertising to be a church that allows visitors to come but you can't be divorced & remarried, can't leave the prc church in the past b/c you are shunned, can't work for a union, can't go to church less than twice a sunday but YOU ARE WELCOME!!!!! I am not like John Engelsma on Facebook and create a fake sign. This isn't photo shopped. The address is 7551 12th Ave, Jenison, MI 49428. Its been 2.5 months since they took possession of the building but can't change the sign. www.mlive.com/jenison/2018/12/familiar_jenison_church_will_b.htmlAttachments:
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Post by arjenvreugdenhil on Mar 14, 2019 0:37:14 GMT
So they don't have enough money to get a new sign but can afford a new church? Did they change to become a CRC church instead? Are they "bearing false witness" by advertising to be a church that allows visitors to come but you can't be divorced & remarried, can't leave the prc church in the past b/c you are shunned, can't work for a union, can't go to church less than twice a sunday but YOU ARE WELCOME!!!!! I am not like John Engelsma on Facebook and create a fake sign. This isn't photo shopped. The address is 7551 12th Ave, Jenison, MI 49428. Its been 2.5 months since they took possession of the building but can't change the sign. www.mlive.com/jenison/2018/12/familiar_jenison_church_will_b.htmlDeciding on and purchasing a new sign takes some time. 2 1/2 months is not crazy. I bet it'll changed soon.
I think most folks in the PRC are not happy with "CRC" on their sign, either...
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Post by notinacult on Mar 14, 2019 11:45:46 GMT
I have no doubt it will change soon. There are things they could do to the sign while waiting for a new sign but they choose to do nothing. The best part is you are welcome when the fact your aren’t welcome but we have to act like a friendly church. So they don't have enough money to get a new sign but can afford a new church? Did they change to become a CRC church instead? Are they "bearing false witness" by advertising to be a church that allows visitors to come but you can't be divorced & remarried, can't leave the prc church in the past b/c you are shunned, can't work for a union, can't go to church less than twice a sunday but YOU ARE WELCOME!!!!! I am not like John Engelsma on Facebook and create a fake sign. This isn't photo shopped. The address is 7551 12th Ave, Jenison, MI 49428. Its been 2.5 months since they took possession of the building but can't change the sign. www.mlive.com/jenison/2018/12/familiar_jenison_church_will_b.htmlDeciding on and purchasing a new sign takes some time. 2 1/2 months is not crazy. I bet it'll changed soon.
I think most folks in the PRC are not happy with "CRC" on their sign, either...
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Post by throwaway2018 on Mar 14, 2019 13:37:55 GMT
So they don't have enough money to get a new sign but can afford a new church? Did they change to become a CRC church instead? Are they "bearing false witness" by advertising to be a church that allows visitors to come but you can't be divorced & remarried, can't leave the prc church in the past b/c you are shunned, can't work for a union, can't go to church less than twice a sunday but YOU ARE WELCOME!!!!! I am not like John Engelsma on Facebook and create a fake sign. This isn't photo shopped. The address is 7551 12th Ave, Jenison, MI 49428. Its been 2.5 months since they took possession of the building but can't change the sign. www.mlive.com/jenison/2018/12/familiar_jenison_church_will_b.htmlI've got to say I agree with Arjen here. Especially since that photo that you posted has a timestamp of December - so before they even took possession. For all we know it has been changed since then (unless you've recently seen it in person). I will agree with you though, it is pretty hard to claim that visitors are welcome when they wont let you actually join if you don't fit into their narrow definition of what's right. I think saying "Visitors are unwelcome" is probably bad advertisement though EDIT: Notinacult, I just realized that it was the blog post dated in december, not the actual picture! Sorry!
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Post by freefromprc on Mar 14, 2019 17:19:53 GMT
So they don't have enough money to get a new sign but can afford a new church? Did they change to become a CRC church instead? Are they "bearing false witness" by advertising to be a church that allows visitors to come but you can't be divorced & remarried, can't leave the prc church in the past b/c you are shunned, can't work for a union, can't go to church less than twice a sunday but YOU ARE WELCOME!!!!! I am not like John Engelsma on Facebook and create a fake sign. This isn't photo shopped. The address is 7551 12th Ave, Jenison, MI 49428. Its been 2.5 months since they took possession of the building but can't change the sign. www.mlive.com/jenison/2018/12/familiar_jenison_church_will_b.htmlI've got to say I agree with Arjen here. Especially since that photo that you posted has a timestamp of December - so before they even took possession. For all we know it has been changed since then (unless you've recently seen it in person). I will agree with you though, it is pretty hard to claim that visitors are welcome when they wont let you actually join if you don't fit into their narrow definition of what's right. I think saying "Visitors are unwelcome" is probably bad advertisement though EDIT: Notinacult, I just realized that it was the blog post dated in december, not the actual picture! Sorry! Advertising is not a priority in the PRC. No one from the outside who knows them has any interest whatsoever in this cult. Spending money on a sign is only to impress members from other congregations.
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Post by notinacult on Mar 14, 2019 17:56:33 GMT
That’s ok. As of this week the sign hasn’t been changed. From the time I heard that a pr church was purchasing that building to now, it has been about 5 months maybe longer. I am surprised they even put on there that you are welcome. So they don't have enough money to get a new sign but can afford a new church? Did they change to become a CRC church instead? Are they "bearing false witness" by advertising to be a church that allows visitors to come but you can't be divorced & remarried, can't leave the prc church in the past b/c you are shunned, can't work for a union, can't go to church less than twice a sunday but YOU ARE WELCOME!!!!! I am not like John Engelsma on Facebook and create a fake sign. This isn't photo shopped. The address is 7551 12th Ave, Jenison, MI 49428. Its been 2.5 months since they took possession of the building but can't change the sign. www.mlive.com/jenison/2018/12/familiar_jenison_church_will_b.htmlI've got to say I agree with Arjen here. Especially since that photo that you posted has a timestamp of December - so before they even took possession. For all we know it has been changed since then (unless you've recently seen it in person). I will agree with you though, it is pretty hard to claim that visitors are welcome when they wont let you actually join if you don't fit into their narrow definition of what's right. I think saying "Visitors are unwelcome" is probably bad advertisement though EDIT: Notinacult, I just realized that it was the blog post dated in december, not the actual picture! Sorry!
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Post by arjenvreugdenhil on Mar 14, 2019 22:17:57 GMT
That’s ok. As of this week the sign hasn’t been changed. From the time I heard that a pr church was purchasing that building to now, it has been about 5 months maybe longer. I am surprised they even put on there that you are welcome. At least they're not reasoning: "The doors are unlocked on Sunday morning, so the Holy Spirit will get everybody in who is supposed to come visit."
Let's hope it is sincere. I believe and hope the PRC can change, little by little. I even get the impression here and there that some change is underway.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating: Visit and see if you're made to feel welcome.
(The clumsiness in making visitors feel welcome is not limited to the PRC. Many churches, Reformed and otherwise, suffer of lack of consideration about this.)
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seeker
Seminary Student
Posts: 351
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Post by seeker on Mar 15, 2019 4:01:23 GMT
That’s ok. As of this week the sign hasn’t been changed. From the time I heard that a pr church was purchasing that building to now, it has been about 5 months maybe longer. I am surprised they even put on there that you are welcome. At least they're not reasoning: "The doors are unlocked on Sunday morning, so the Holy Spirit will get everybody in who is supposed to come visit."
Let's hope it is sincere. I believe and hope the PRC can change, little by little. I even get the impression here and there that some change is underway.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating: Visit and see if you're made to feel welcome.
(The clumsiness in making visitors feel welcome is not limited to the PRC. Many churches, Reformed and otherwise, suffer of lack of consideration about this.)
so it could be worse, therefore its ok? this is a bad group and you defend them.
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Post by arjenvreugdenhil on Mar 15, 2019 20:49:32 GMT
At least they're not reasoning: "The doors are unlocked on Sunday morning, so the Holy Spirit will get everybody in who is supposed to come visit."
Let's hope it is sincere. I believe and hope the PRC can change, little by little. I even get the impression here and there that some change is underway. The proof of the pudding is in the eating: Visit and see if you're made to feel welcome. (The clumsiness in making visitors feel welcome is not limited to the PRC. Many churches, Reformed and otherwise, suffer of lack of consideration about this.)
so it could be worse, therefore its ok? this is a bad group and you defend them. Very few groups are bad in every possible way. It is important to identify where the badness is. Otherwise, your criticism becomes unguided and slanderous. Also, the only proper attitude I see for Christians is to sincerely hope and pray that this "bad" group turns good, by God's grace. That's what I try to do and ask others to do. It doesn't take away from my criticism.
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Post by Skyfall on Mar 15, 2019 20:56:30 GMT
so it could be worse, therefore its ok? this is a bad group and you defend them. Very few groups are bad in every possible way. It is important to identify where the badness is. Otherwise, your criticism becomes unguided and slanderous. Also, the only proper attitude I see for Christians is to sincerely hope and pray that this "bad" group turns good, by God's grace. That's what I try to do and ask others to do. It doesn't take away from my criticism. Yeah, you just don't know what you're talking about now. It's nice to sugar coat what's going on in this cult until you hear what REALLY is going on. Clearly, you haven't heard, or turned a deaf ear to those who have laid out their hearts here. Not only that - but you have decided to completely ignore those who have suffered under this cult. Instead you use terms like "mockery" and "slanderous" when in fact you have no idea or perhaps you do, but choose to look away. All the prayer in the world won't fix what this cult has done to many families for generations. Think about that before you type another droned-on PRC-type paragraph of garbage.
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Post by arjenvreugdenhil on Mar 15, 2019 21:17:49 GMT
Very few groups are bad in every possible way. It is important to identify where the badness is. Otherwise, your criticism becomes unguided and slanderous. Also, the only proper attitude I see for Christians is to sincerely hope and pray that this "bad" group turns good, by God's grace. That's what I try to do and ask others to do. It doesn't take away from my criticism. Yeah, you just don't know what you're talking about now. It's nice to sugar coat what's going on in this cult until you hear what REALLY is going on. Clearly, you haven't heard, or turned a deaf ear to those who have laid out their hearts here. Not only that - but you have decided to completely ignore those who have suffered under this cult. Instead you use terms like "mockery" and "slanderous" when in fact you have no idea or perhaps you do, but choose to look away. All the prayer in the world won't fix what this cult has done to many families for generations. Think about that before you type another droned-on PRC-type paragraph of garbage. I realize that for some their experience in the PRC has been terrible. Some of the ongoing abuses are now coming to light more publicly, and it's ghastly. Yet I am a Christian, and I believe in the restoring and miraculous power of God to turn a ship. I would like you to pray for it, too. Not your prayer but the Spirit for whom you pray can do this. That naturally is not PRC-type garbage. I know very few PRC-enthusiasts who believe their ship needs to be turned.
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seeker
Seminary Student
Posts: 351
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Post by seeker on Mar 15, 2019 21:20:35 GMT
so it could be worse, therefore its ok? this is a bad group and you defend them. Very few groups are bad in every possible way. It is important to identify where the badness is. Otherwise, your criticism becomes unguided and slanderous. Also, the only proper attitude I see for Christians is to sincerely hope and pray that this "bad" group turns good, by God's grace. That's what I try to do and ask others to do. It doesn't take away from my criticism. i do not see where i said bad in every possible way. i lived in it long enough to know there is a lot more bad than good, and do not suggest that i am unguided and a slanderer unless you know me and what i have been through
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Post by notinacult on Jul 24, 2019 14:11:23 GMT
More pr churches are welcoming outside members to their churches. Are they struggling for money? The number of babies born declining? I wonder how this welcoming of outsiders is effecting cults class at covenant since every church is a cult.
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Post by freefromprc on Jul 24, 2019 15:32:04 GMT
More pr churches are welcoming outside members to their churches. Are they struggling for money? The number of babies born declining? I wonder how this welcoming of outsiders is effecting cults class at covenant since every church is a cult. Do you think they are trying to get non PR people to visit their church? Just wondering what you have seen to think that. Obviously it should have been done many years ago, but they just thought they were exempt from real mission work. Wondering if the sign ever go changed - and what the new one looks like - if they did change it.
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Post by notinacult on Jul 24, 2019 17:23:43 GMT
The very top part in red was changed to say Zion prc. Everything else still stays the same. Faith is also joining in. More pr churches are welcoming outside members to their churches. Are they struggling for money? The number of babies born declining? I wonder how this welcoming of outsiders is effecting cults class at covenant since every church is a cult. Do you think they are trying to get non PR people to visit their church? Just wondering what you have seen to think that. Obviously it should have been done many years ago, but they just thought they were exempt from real mission work. Wondering if the sign ever go changed - and what the new one looks like - if they did change it.
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