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Post by singlepr on Oct 2, 2019 12:54:47 GMT
Does anyone have any news on what exactly is happening in Classis West? Was a minister "disbarred" for lack of a better term?
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Post by pemptyr on Oct 4, 2019 21:29:34 GMT
I can't believe it, the classis makes a decision only to abandon it the next time they meet and decide they were wrong the prior meeting. So what really changed, was it new information or was it new delegates to classis? I lean towards new delegates
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Post by pemptyr on Oct 4, 2019 23:31:38 GMT
I responded to this thread so I must care, i was just trying to say how absurd it was. You seem to be in a bitter mood now, are you?
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Post by pemptyr on Oct 5, 2019 4:44:43 GMT
I responded to this thread so I must care, i was just trying to say how absurd it was. You seem to be in a bitter mood now, are you? I'm sorry, pemptyr. Sometimes it is difficult to express one's feelings in such short posts intrinsic to forums such as this. I didn't mean to belittle your opinion at all (I value it!). Rather, it was about the absurdity of the subject upon which we probably agree on some level. And yes, obviously, I can cultivate bitterness when it comes to the prca, it seems quite natural for me actually, and something I have to work on, I admit. Again, sorry, I didn't intend the response to be anything against you at all, but rather against the prca. I really don't care about this issue within Classis West. Maybe I should, but in all honesty, I don't. I agree with you I don't care either if the marcius guy squinted his eyes while he e said predestination and now theirs a cloud of suspicion over his preaching either, all I seen was the post about it on here and just commented on it like it's strange how in a few months time he can go from guilty to innocent being judged by the same body. I heard a lawyer joke recently and that's what it reminded me of. A good lawyer knows the law, a better lawyer knows the judge.
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Post by cannalily on Oct 5, 2019 15:40:15 GMT
I responded to this thread so I must care, i was just trying to say how absurd it was. You seem to be in a bitter mood now, are you? I'm sorry, pemptyr. Sometimes it is difficult to express one's feelings in such short posts intrinsic to forums such as this. I didn't mean to belittle your opinion at all (I value it!). Rather, it was about the absurdity of the subject upon which we probably agree on some level. And yes, obviously, I can cultivate bitterness when it comes to the prca, it seems quite natural for me actually, and something I have to work on, I admit. Again, sorry, I didn't intend the response to be anything against you at all, but rather against the prca. I really don't care about this issue within Classis West. Maybe I should, but in all honesty, I don't.Isn't that funny how that is.... It's such a huge deal when I used to read this junk in the bulletin. After all it took up so much space, and then you had some nice juicy gossip to talk about... The cult makes such a big deal of it, and much of the info is hidden "behind closed doors" anyway, so that just leads to speculation. Now that I'm out - NONE of this stuff matters at all. If anything, the cult just freed up a guy who just strayed a little bit when he had to drone on for hours. This might be a real opportunity for that guy to start a new life. After all, all of this stuff is a waste of one's life.
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Post by throwaway2018 on Oct 7, 2019 13:37:14 GMT
I'm sorry, pemptyr. Sometimes it is difficult to express one's feelings in such short posts intrinsic to forums such as this. I didn't mean to belittle your opinion at all (I value it!). Rather, it was about the absurdity of the subject upon which we probably agree on some level. And yes, obviously, I can cultivate bitterness when it comes to the prca, it seems quite natural for me actually, and something I have to work on, I admit. Again, sorry, I didn't intend the response to be anything against you at all, but rather against the prca. I really don't care about this issue within Classis West. Maybe I should, but in all honesty, I don't.Isn't that funny how that is.... It's such a huge deal when I used to read this junk in the bulletin. After all it took up so much space, and then you had some nice juicy gossip to talk about... The cult makes such a big deal of it, and much of the info is hidden "behind closed doors" anyway, so that just leads to speculation. Now that I'm out - NONE of this stuff matters at all. If anything, the cult just freed up a guy who just strayed a little bit when he had to drone on for hours. This might be a real opportunity for that guy to start a new life. After all, all of this stuff is a waste of one's life. It has to make the dude a little cynical now. He has dedicated his life to this organization. I would assume he was preaching with the best of intentions and trying to interpret the scripture in a way that made sense to him, and he was harshly treated for it - so harshly that he had to be issued an official apology. And now classis west is "suspicious" of him. This is probably as good of a chance as any for him to reevaluate what he has dedicated his life to and whether he truly agrees with everything the PRC does. Edit: It's honestly somewhat terrifying to consider that the PRC is so entrenched in "us vs them" mentality that it extends to their own ministers. They're so convinced that Satan is working to turn their ministers into false teachers that even the slightest hint of difference in opinion causes them to turn on one another in fear. They're delusional.
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Post by pemptyr on Oct 7, 2019 19:26:46 GMT
I think it's good to discuss current events in the prc from a different spin than the pr leaders. If only so it can rattle around in their heads that something is not right
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Post by cannalily on Oct 10, 2019 18:25:32 GMT
I think it's good to discuss current events in the prc from a different spin than the pr leaders. If only so it can rattle around in their heads that something is not right It should be out in the open so that current members can actually look at what is going on.
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Post by pemptyr on Oct 10, 2019 20:36:27 GMT
I think it's good to discuss current events in the prc from a different spin than the pr leaders. If only so it can rattle around in their heads that something is not right It should be out in the open so that current members can actually look at what is going on. Some people like it to be secretive, they gather information from the people "in the know" and use that as power over other members to boost their self esteem. An example of this is they will mention they have intimate knowledge of what's going on, in front of a group of church members but they can not talk about it, later on telling their closest friends all about it.
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Post by gratefullyfree on Oct 10, 2019 22:58:27 GMT
I remember when this stuff seemed so important, I can't believe how much time I spent pondering such things and having discussions about the "right" way. Ugh! What a waste of time! Nobody outside of the PRC cares about any of this nonsense.
And it would be great if the minister were to look at what happened, and really consider whether he wants to continue to associate with these nuts. I'm sure this isn't the last time something like this will happen to him if he sticks around.
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Post by freefromprc on Oct 10, 2019 23:03:14 GMT
From a church bulletin: CLASSIS WEST sustained the protests of five protestants with regard to their objections to Classis West’s decisions in March 2019 and declared those decisions to be in error. The decisions which were declared to be in error were to advice the consistory of Edmonton PRC to suspend Rev. Marcus because of his preaching concerning providence. Classis did so on the following grounds: 1) Although Rev. Marcus’ teaching on providence was erroneous, suspension according to Articles 79,80 of the Church Order were not the proper way of addressing it. 2) Classis erred in its judgment that Rev. Marcus’ proposed apology was not adequate. 3) Nowhere in its grounds did classis demonstrate that the statements of Rev. Marcus were explicitly contrary to the teaching of Scripture and the confessions. 4) Classis erred in giving as a ground for suspension that “such a suspension would give the consistory time to do an investigation into the extent of his teaching in the congregation, especially with regard to the instruction of the catechism students.” 5) Classis erred in giving as a ground for suspension that Rev. Marcus “cannot labor effectively in the congregation with a cloud of suspicion hanging over his orthodoxy.” 6) Classis erred in giving as a ground of suspension that certain statements of Rev. Marcus were “suspicious,” which statements are not inherently wrong. Classis West made apology to First Edmonton consistory and to Rev. Marcus for the advice given in March. Classis will continue to address matters that pertain to this case when the reconvene on Tuesday, November 5. This used to be important information to me....its almost embarrassing! The hours I put into those meetings....such a horrible waste of time...and to think I got my children tied up into it. It makes me sick.
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Post by Skyfall on Oct 10, 2019 23:52:29 GMT
It should be out in the open so that current members can actually look at what is going on. Some people like it to be secretive, they gather information from the people "in the know" and use that as power over other members to boost their self esteem. An example of this is they will mention they have intimate knowledge of what's going on, in front of a group of church members but they can not talk about it, later on telling their closest friends all about it. This is certainly one of the games...
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Post by throwaway2018 on Oct 11, 2019 13:58:38 GMT
It's fairly ridiculous to consider how secretive Classis/Synod is. I understand keeping certain cases secretive - like when victims of abuse don't want everyone all up in their business. But as a general rule I think that church government should be as transparent as possible and everything should be public except that which is requested to be private by victims. How can church members be confident that church leaders are acting in their best interests or acting biblically if they can't hear what the leadership has decided other than vague generalities?
I think pemptyr hit it on the head - it's a total power trip for those who hold these secrets.
I have not ever actually been involved in synod/classis or really even heard anything more than hushed gossip so maybe there are actual good reasons for keeping things quiet that I don't know about. Think about how important it is for government and government officials to be as transparent as possible otherwise corruption begins to seep in. I don't see why church government would be any different.
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Post by cannalily on Oct 11, 2019 14:24:43 GMT
It's fairly ridiculous to consider how secretive Classis/Synod is. I understand keeping certain cases secretive - like when victims of abuse don't want everyone all up in their business. But as a general rule I think that church government should be as transparent as possible and everything should be public except that which is requested to be private by victims. How can church members be confident that church leaders are acting in their best interests or acting biblically if they can't hear what the leadership has decided other than vague generalities? I think pemptyr hit it on the head - it's a total power trip for those who hold these secrets. I have not ever actually been involved in synod/classis or really even heard anything more than hushed gossip so maybe there are actual good reasons for keeping things quiet that I don't know about. Think about how important it is for government and government officials to be as transparent as possible otherwise corruption begins to seep in. I don't see why church government would be any different. Since when do true victims ever make it to Classis or Synod. Of all of the abuse cases I've witnessed, they were barely "handled" by the local consistory. For a true victim case to make it to Classis, there would have to be egg on the faces of the local jerks before it ever made it to the larger spectrum. This is why the Classis/Synods stuff was just puke. It doesn't matter at all - but it keeps the buzz going as if something really hard was being discussed.
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Post by cannalily on Oct 11, 2019 14:27:08 GMT
It's fairly ridiculous to consider how secretive Classis/Synod is. I understand keeping certain cases secretive - like when victims of abuse don't want everyone all up in their business. But as a general rule I think that church government should be as transparent as possible and everything should be public except that which is requested to be private by victims. How can church members be confident that church leaders are acting in their best interests or acting biblically if they can't hear what the leadership has decided other than vague generalities? I think pemptyr hit it on the head - it's a total power trip for those who hold these secrets. I have not ever actually been involved in synod/classis or really even heard anything more than hushed gossip so maybe there are actual good reasons for keeping things quiet that I don't know about. Think about how important it is for government and government officials to be as transparent as possible otherwise corruption begins to seep in. I don't see why church government would be any different. Oh, and I'll just point out once again, the local consistories are not capable of even doing any kind of abuse therapy. At all. These are local idiots voted in from the farms because they are "holy". Please. ZERO TRAINING in any type of abuse at all.
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