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Post by searchingbeliever on Jul 28, 2021 0:41:26 GMT
Has anyone else struggled to find a church home after leaving the PRC? It’s been about 18 months and of course COVID has made finding a new church super difficult...but still having a hard time landing in one specific place. Still strange to not go to church with everyone you know. Any local west Michigan churches anyone might recommend? I know the church you choose after leaving is a very personal choice, but doing it on my own has been a challenge to know what the right fit it...after having church always be such a community and family based experience in the past. I know leaving was absolutely the correct decision, and I’ve been fed well by many other denominations and pastors since, but looking for membership somewhere and struggling to find that. Advice welcome! Did you wind up finding something? I have grown up in both CRC and Non-denom in west Michigan and have a few faves in the area. If you haven’t found one yet, let me know if you have a certain style you’re looking for. I have not yet. There’s a church I really like but it’s an hour away. Really like bible churches but want to make sure I choose a church that has very gospel focused preaching and have yet to find that fit. I enjoy the music but sometimes have a hard time with churches who have such a focus and almost concert feel to their music
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Post by learner101 on Jul 28, 2021 1:02:41 GMT
I’ll see if I can figure out how to message you some options.
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Whisper
Seminary Student
Posts: 452
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Post by Whisper on Aug 1, 2021 15:47:41 GMT
Has anyone else struggled to find a church home after leaving the PRC? It’s been about 18 months and of course COVID has made finding a new church super difficult...but still having a hard time landing in one specific place. Still strange to not go to church with everyone you know. Any local west Michigan churches anyone might recommend? I know the church you choose after leaving is a very personal choice, but doing it on my own has been a challenge to know what the right fit it...after having church always be such a community and family based experience in the past. I know leaving was absolutely the correct decision, and I’ve been fed well by many other denominations and pastors since, but looking for membership somewhere and struggling to find that. Advice welcome! Resurrection Life Grandville. Excellent Biblical relevant preaching. Will have to overlook some things that you're not used to such as choir and leading of worship in the front which is actually pretty biblical, I Chronicles 16:7. Also, you might disagree with a couple of things, but this is the kind of Church where Jesus would not be kicked out even though he might not agree with everything. This is a church where people are being saved on a regular basis and discipled.
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Post by Regina•Phalange on Sept 10, 2021 13:40:26 GMT
Give yourself some grace in finding the right church home. It took me years. Don’t jump into something you’re not sure about or ready for just because you’re feeling the pressure. Keep your conversation and heart open with God. He will lead you!!!
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Post by JohnOrange on Sept 10, 2021 19:56:03 GMT
It seems that as a general principle, any church with a well-defined and strongly-held belief system will want to enforce the belief system and (what they think are) all the daily implications of the belief system. The PRC seems to be the logical extreme example of that. But if a church is too lax, why bother with it? The sweet spot is a church that has definite beliefs that align with yours, and which has leaders who promote those beliefs in a positive, gracious, interesting, attractive way, not in a controlling or manipulative way. I myself have been unable to find the ideal balance, so I now view worship from different churches via Livestream.
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Post by prnolonger on Sept 10, 2021 20:34:16 GMT
It seems that as a general principle, any church with a well-defined and strongly-held belief system will want to enforce the belief system and (what they think are) all the daily implications of the belief system. The PRC seems to be the logical extreme example of that. But if a church is too lax, why bother with it? The sweet spot is a church that has definite beliefs that align with yours, and which has leaders who promote those beliefs in a positive, gracious, interesting, attractive way, not in a controlling or manipulative way. I myself have been unable to find the ideal balance, so I now view worship from different churches via Livestream. I see where you're coming from, but I want to maybe try and illustrate a different picture so you can see another perspective. It's not that there's a scale where at one end is "The church just does whatever and doesn't enforce anything" and the other end is "The church enforces its beliefs system 100%". It's more that the PRC, as an organization, has all these rules and implications of belief that are at odds with each other and enforced willy-nilly. It gives the appearance that the church has firm beliefs and an enforcement system with which to ensure its adherents truly believe it and lives their lives in accordance with it, but if you look behind the curtain you see it's just silly arbitrary nonsense. They're making it up as they go along, and they're claiming the Bible has always said those are the rules since the beginning of time. The rules aren't fully enforced because there are no rules. It's Calvinball, or more accurately, it's CalvinismBall. Here's how it works: if you can make a reason for why something is a sin or a slight, and people believe you, then it is one. It's not about truth or enforcement of beliefs, it's a hierarchy game. The preachers, professors, council, and richest members are all at the top of the pyramid. You can enforce the rules downwards, but you can't enforce the rules upwards. If it were a plain set of rules determined by the Bible and applicable equally to all members, then rules could be enforced on everyone. That's clearly not the case, cough cough Reverend Van Overloop cough cough. It's less about enforcing some specific claim they say the Bible says, and more about wielding power. Look no further than the RPC/PRC schism. As long as disagreements happen going downwards in the pyramid, then the game continues happening. No one cares when some single mother gets tossed out of the game or somebody starts to question literal creationism gets tossed. If some girl makes claims she's getting abused by an upper member who makes the rules, none of the true believers will bat an eye when she gets tossed and the rule-maker stays, despite the rules saying "don't abuse". However if the disagreement happens by players in the same pyramid layer, ruh-roh. Andy Lanning's one of the rule-makers, so several players leave with him so they can start their own game because they don't want to play with you anymore. And in their rulebook, anyone playing by the other rules is a whore. Don't look at me, that's just the rules that the Bible says from the beginning of time. It's not our rules that are new, it's that your rules have changed due to creeping heresy, or whatever. Our rules have always been, and will always be the same. If it was a scale thing, then members could disagree and just "go in peace". They can't do that though, because extending graciousness and humility of belief is against the rules of CalvinismBall. One of the rules is that you're in the truest church. Ain't no "go in peace" if you're leaving The Truth™. You just gotta be so damn sure that the rules you're playing by are correct and people are leaving because they broke the rules, so every exit from the organization has to be some big thing. One of the rules is that you can't question the rules. Just ask Reverend Dick. That's not how most churches work. There's no grace in that system. It spits out victims with reckless abandon. You can't acknowledge the victims, that's also one of the rules. If you try to suss out the rules and write them down, you'll go absolutely insane. They don't work like that. We've talked about this on the forum elsewhere a couple of times. Usually I'd link a thread here, but I can't seem to find it.
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Post by JohnOrange on Sept 10, 2021 20:53:14 GMT
prnolonger: Thank you, that was a helpful clarification and new perspective. I had been thinking that the PRC was merely authoritarian, i.e. strictly enforcing a set of well-understood and uniformly-applicable rules. Now I see it's beyond that. Yikes.
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Post by fellowhuman on Sept 10, 2021 21:00:23 GMT
There are rules that are still on the unofficial books, though, that are too ubiquitously broken to be pointed out. The two off the top of my head are drama and "worldly music". It can't be controlled anymore, so all that happens is people try to bring it up less. The rule never changed. People just have an unspoken agreement not to bring up the rule while they're breaking it.
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Post by prnolonger on Sept 10, 2021 21:13:48 GMT
prnolonger : Thank you, that was a helpful clarification and new perspective. I had been thinking that the PRC was merely authoritarian, i.e. strictly enforcing a set of well-understood and uniformly-applicable rules. Now I see it's beyond that. Yikes. I will wear this comment like a gold medal around my neck for the rest of time. I don't resent anyone that examines their own belief system and comes to a conclusion for how they should live their own life. That includes conservative Christians, even PR's. Atheists, agnostics, whatever. If you've put in the work of self-examination and are open to discussing your worldview, belief system, and implications of beliefs, then buddy I am on board with you. I might not buy what you're selling, but I'll look at your wares. I might even compliment them if I see something shiny. If you're not going to put in the work of examining your own beliefs, and then want to play pretend that you've got life figured out and everyone else is just blind to such easily derivable truth, then I don't respect you. If you get defensive and aggressive about your beliefs because you've never dealt with criticism of them before, even by your own self-inquisition, then I don't respect you. I have found that most PR's fit in that category. Not all, but most. The loudest ones especially so. They just don't bother putting in the work. They can't deal with criticism. They're not allowed to question their own beliefs and because their lifetime in the PRC they have no idea how to. It is true because it is true, and it is best because it is best. It's the "closest to the true church on earth" because it just is. And if you point out a flaw, then say nobody is perfect or no church is perfect and accuse the criticizer of being nitpicky and biased. Probably bitter too, because if a PR is hearing criticism it's likely from someone who was formerly PR. Your response of "Yikes" makes me feel like an Olympic champion. Yikes is right. Don't get caught in that trap.
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Post by searching4truth on Sept 11, 2021 1:58:45 GMT
Wow.. everything you say, Prnolonger, is right on the money … yikes indeed ..
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Post by soldierofChrist on Sept 11, 2021 4:38:41 GMT
OPC, United Reformed Church (URC) www.reformedreader.org/rbmichigan.htmfounders.org/misc/chlist/MI.htmlreformedbaptistnetwork.com/churches/www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1ONGR_enNZ956NZ958&tbs=lf:1,lf_ui:4&tbm=lcl&sxsrf=AOaemvJ0FuALajNuRLafUfT1kkj60QS0wQ:1631334814434&q=grace+community+churches+west+mi&rflfq=1&num=10&ved=2ahUKEwjnrP7gi_byAhVVfisKHT02AHYQtgN6BAgQEAM#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:[[46.76211094454112,-76.23135187141136],[40.28753679648037,-92.71084405891136],null,[43.61186575306133,-84.47109796516136],7] Sorry, I don't know but these websites may be helpful. All the best:)
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Post by cannalily on Sept 11, 2021 12:00:42 GMT
OPC, United Reformed Church (URC) www.reformedreader.org/rbmichigan.htmfounders.org/misc/chlist/MI.htmlreformedbaptistnetwork.com/churches/www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1ONGR_enNZ956NZ958&tbs=lf:1,lf_ui:4&tbm=lcl&sxsrf=AOaemvJ0FuALajNuRLafUfT1kkj60QS0wQ:1631334814434&q=grace+community+churches+west+mi&rflfq=1&num=10&ved=2ahUKEwjnrP7gi_byAhVVfisKHT02AHYQtgN6BAgQEAM#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:[[46.76211094454112,-76.23135187141136],[40.28753679648037,-92.71084405891136],null,[43.61186575306133,-84.47109796516136],7] Sorry, I don't know but these websites may be helpful. All the best:) I wouldn't be caught dead in any of these "churches"... they're just as bad. Reformed baptist? Horrible. Of course you do what you want.
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Post by crazychurch on Sept 11, 2021 12:16:03 GMT
OPC, United Reformed Church (URC) www.reformedreader.org/rbmichigan.htmfounders.org/misc/chlist/MI.htmlreformedbaptistnetwork.com/churches/www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1ONGR_enNZ956NZ958&tbs=lf:1,lf_ui:4&tbm=lcl&sxsrf=AOaemvJ0FuALajNuRLafUfT1kkj60QS0wQ:1631334814434&q=grace+community+churches+west+mi&rflfq=1&num=10&ved=2ahUKEwjnrP7gi_byAhVVfisKHT02AHYQtgN6BAgQEAM#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:[[46.76211094454112,-76.23135187141136],[40.28753679648037,-92.71084405891136],null,[43.61186575306133,-84.47109796516136],7] Sorry, I don't know but these websites may be helpful. All the best:) I wouldn't be caught dead in any of these "churches"... they're just as bad. Reformed baptist? Horrible. Of course you do what you want. Yeah that's the frying pan into the fire right there.
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Post by wewerepr on Sept 11, 2021 13:25:47 GMT
Struggling to find a new church home: which CHURCH to affiliate with. In the PRCA when you drink the Kool-Aid and become one of the congregation, there is the expectation that you will jump ALL IN....make the ham buns, pay the tuition, pay at least the per family tithing amount, work in the work groups, serve the cookies, be the room mom, be in the Bible Studies, take a shift in consistory if so lucky, a church HOME. In other churches it is much the same, come in, join us, become one of us, work together with us.
I have had a lot of changing churches in the past three decades.
You CAN find a new church home THAT ISN'T THE PERFECT CHURCH (because there isn't one) You CAN find a new church home WHERE YOU DON'T GET INVOVLED IN ANY ACTIVITY (just come to worship: learn, love, live...) Any minister worth his weight in salt will tell you: to attend the worship service is enough.
Don't struggle to find a new church home because you can't jump in all the way like it was required in the PRCA Take your time, visit a long time, maybe visit the minister,
You don't have to jump into bed to belong to a church You can just sit on the front porch, in the soft easy rocking chairs, sipping sweet tea, singing, and listening, loving, living.
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Post by JohnOrange on Sept 11, 2021 13:50:00 GMT
Wewerepr says "You CAN find a new church home WHERE YOU DON'T GET INVOVLED IN ANY ACTIVITY". Yes exactly. I've been in several different churches in the last 30 years. In all cases I joined with high hopes, then got ground down by agreeing to join committees, councils, activities, etc. No more. Here's an idea: maybe look for a church that does not own its property, but meets in rented facilities. So much time, energy, and money is spent on buildings and grounds and upkeep, it's easy for that to be the tail that wags the dog. In a basic, renting church situation, they might have more time for actual religion and spirituality.
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