|
Post by Ham Bun on Oct 15, 2023 12:30:22 GMT
Who's having Ham Buns today? It's a great distraction for what's going on in this denomination!
|
|
|
Post by pemptyr on Oct 19, 2023 2:00:37 GMT
Remember Nathan decker wrote a standard bearer article vol98 issue 08 in 2022 about sexual abuse. He admits it's difficult to write about a subject like this. Here's copy and paste from the first paragraph or so.
Search Search... Menu 01/15/2022 Sexual abuse in the church
DECKER, NATHAN All Around Us Home / Archive / Volume 98/2022 / Vol 98 Issue 08 SHARE IT
Introduction
The subject of this “All Around Us” article is sexual abuse in the realm of the church, a topic about which it is difficult to write and to read. However, it is necessary to do so because, in the first place, we must have a certain level of knowledge that the terrible evil of sexual abuse is present in the church. For a member of the church of Christ to think that sexual abuse only occurs in the world is wrong. Not only does such a mentality cause the church not to take the necessary protective measures to prevent sexual abuse from making inroads in the church, but it also very easily leads to a wrong or inadequate response to revelations of sexual abuse.
So instead of talking about the prc church, you know the church that you all know to have the purest manifestation of God's truth, NOPE he talks about sexual abuse in the false church, you know the roman catholic church and also the sbc to make a distinction from the world Do you really think your ministers put any effort or care about sexual abuse in the prc or do they care more about producing articles for the standard bearer?
|
|
|
Post by Skyfall on Oct 19, 2023 12:01:45 GMT
Remember Nathan decker wrote a standard bearer article vol98 issue 08 in 2022 about sexual abuse. He admits it's difficult to write about a subject like this. Here's copy and paste from the first paragraph or so. Search Search... Menu 01/15/2022 Sexual abuse in the church DECKER, NATHAN All Around Us Home / Archive / Volume 98/2022 / Vol 98 Issue 08 SHARE IT Introduction The subject of this “All Around Us” article is sexual abuse in the realm of the church, a topic about which it is difficult to write and to read. However, it is necessary to do so because, in the first place, we must have a certain level of knowledge that the terrible evil of sexual abuse is present in the church. For a member of the church of Christ to think that sexual abuse only occurs in the world is wrong. Not only does such a mentality cause the church not to take the necessary protective measures to prevent sexual abuse from making inroads in the church, but it also very easily leads to a wrong or inadequate response to revelations of sexual abuse. So instead of talking about the prc church, you know the church that you all know to have the purest manifestation of God's truth, NOPE he talks about sexual abuse in the false church, you know the roman catholic church and also the sbc to make a distinction from the world Do you really think your ministers put any effort or care about sexual abuse in the prc or do they care more about producing articles for the standard bearer? He probably assumed like the rest of these proud ministers that a Third Party Investigation on Sexual Abuse would never occur in the TRUE CHURCH. And yet, well, here we are. Welcome to your Protestant Reformed Churches in America. Enjoy that distinction. Hey PR's, don't hate the messenger.
|
|
|
Post by prnolonger on Oct 19, 2023 13:06:54 GMT
Remember Nathan decker wrote a standard bearer article vol98 issue 08 in 2022 about sexual abuse. He admits it's difficult to write about a subject like this. Here's copy and paste from the first paragraph or so. Search Search... Menu 01/15/2022 Sexual abuse in the church DECKER, NATHAN All Around Us Home / Archive / Volume 98/2022 / Vol 98 Issue 08 SHARE IT Introduction The subject of this “All Around Us” article is sexual abuse in the realm of the church, a topic about which it is difficult to write and to read. However, it is necessary to do so because, in the first place, we must have a certain level of knowledge that the terrible evil of sexual abuse is present in the church. For a member of the church of Christ to think that sexual abuse only occurs in the world is wrong. Not only does such a mentality cause the church not to take the necessary protective measures to prevent sexual abuse from making inroads in the church, but it also very easily leads to a wrong or inadequate response to revelations of sexual abuse. So instead of talking about the prc church, you know the church that you all know to have the purest manifestation of God's truth, NOPE he talks about sexual abuse in the false church, you know the roman catholic church and also the sbc to make a distinction from the world Do you really think your ministers put any effort or care about sexual abuse in the prc or do they care more about producing articles for the standard bearer? He probably assumed like the rest of these proud ministers that a Third Party Investigation on Sexual Abuse would never occur in the TRUE CHURCH. And yet, well, here we are. Welcome to your Protestant Reformed Churches in America. Enjoy that distinction. Hey PR's, don't hate the messenger. I can personally attest that Nathan Decker has been working to make the 3PI happen and pushed for it to happen while it was still a hypothetical possibility, for what it's worth. I still have a lot of qualms with what he (and others) wrote in the sexual abuse issue of the SB. So many concrete things are wrapped in "ifs" to lighten their impact and aspersions cast in other churches and The World™. Sometimes it's enough for the thing to be the thing. It doesn't have to be about other things. And sometimes we don't have to use "if" if we know that it is a thing that actually happened. There's no "If there has been abuse in the PRC, may God forgive it." There's no "if" that needs to be there. You don't need the if that still keeps hope alive for the possibilities of denominational innocence. Jesus wasn't all like "If they didn't know what they do, Father forgive them." Just let the thing be the thing, and stop putting bubble wrap around it hoping it prevents the edges of the thing from hurting anybody.
|
|
|
Post by blindrealist on Oct 19, 2023 16:27:34 GMT
He probably assumed like the rest of these proud ministers that a Third Party Investigation on Sexual Abuse would never occur in the TRUE CHURCH. And yet, well, here we are. Welcome to your Protestant Reformed Churches in America. Enjoy that distinction. Hey PR's, don't hate the messenger. I can personally attest that Nathan Decker has been working to make the 3PI happen and pushed for it to happen while it was still a hypothetical possibility, for what it's worth. I still have a lot of qualms with what he (and others) wrote in the sexual abuse issue of the SB. So many concrete things are wrapped in "ifs" to lighten their impact and aspersions cast in other churches and The World™. Sometimes it's enough for the thing to be the thing. It doesn't have to be about other things. And sometimes we don't have to use "if" if we know that it is a thing that actually happened. There's no "If there has been abuse in the PRC, may God forgive it." There's no "if" that needs to be there. You don't need the if that still keeps hope alive for the possibilities of denominational innocence. Jesus wasn't all like "If they didn't know what they do, Father forgive them." Just let the thing be the thing, and stop putting bubble wrap around it hoping it prevents the edges of the thing from hurting anybody. This is why I have so little hope about the 3PI. It looks like guys like Decker are hoping the 3PI is going to do the work for them. But it doesn't work that way.
Suppose everything happens with the 3PI that should happen. Accurate information is collected, collated and presented to the committee. With the information the right recommendations are given. But then action is required. Guideposts can't act. Its up to classis or synod or various consistories. At that point I fear everything will be lost. There will be endless debate about the authority of the higher assemblies verses the authority of the consistory. Or there will be endless debate about what actions to take and how far to take them. Personally I think there will probably be just a bunch of SB articles on the subject along with some lectures given about how things need to be corrected.
While the 3PI is being conducted, Decker and guys like him are going to face pressure from their fellow ministers and consistories about their attitudes and statements. They're going to get a lot of "friendly advice" about how important it is to stick together in difficulties and to present a united front. They'll be reminded of what happens to ministers who get too critical of the denomination aka the leadership. They'll hear a lot about how important the unity of the church is. Evils of schism. They'll be encouraged to keep writing and saying the same watered-down, defensive things they've been writing and saying.
My hope is that Decker and company start to see that all that pressure is evil and has the effect opposite of its intentions. The only good possibility I see is that some ministers' eyes are opened. That at least a few of them are willing to take the way out of the PRC and to lead members out into a better place where they'll be free of all the evil nonsense.
|
|
|
Post by leslin on Oct 19, 2023 19:53:59 GMT
I can personally attest that Nathan Decker has been working to make the 3PI happen and pushed for it to happen while it was still a hypothetical possibility, for what it's worth. I still have a lot of qualms with what he (and others) wrote in the sexual abuse issue of the SB. So many concrete things are wrapped in "ifs" to lighten their impact and aspersions cast in other churches and The World™. Sometimes it's enough for the thing to be the thing. It doesn't have to be about other things. And sometimes we don't have to use "if" if we know that it is a thing that actually happened. There's no "If there has been abuse in the PRC, may God forgive it." There's no "if" that needs to be there. You don't need the if that still keeps hope alive for the possibilities of denominational innocence. Jesus wasn't all like "If they didn't know what they do, Father forgive them." Just let the thing be the thing, and stop putting bubble wrap around it hoping it prevents the edges of the thing from hurting anybody. This is why I have so little hope about the 3PI. It looks like guys like Decker are hoping the 3PI is going to do the work for them. But it doesn't work that way.
Suppose everything happens with the 3PI that should happen. Accurate information is collected, collated and presented to the committee. With the information the right recommendations are given. But then action is required. Guideposts can't act. Its up to classis or synod or various consistories. At that point I fear everything will be lost. There will be endless debate about the authority of the higher assemblies verses the authority of the consistory. Or there will be endless debate about what actions to take and how far to take them. Personally I think there will probably be just a bunch of SB articles on the subject along with some lectures given about how things need to be corrected.
While the 3PI is being conducted, Decker and guys like him are going to face pressure from their fellow ministers and consistories about their attitudes and statements. They're going to get a lot of "friendly advice" about how important it is to stick together in difficulties and to present a united front. They'll be reminded of what happens to ministers who get too critical of the denomination aka the leadership. They'll hear a lot about how important the unity of the church is. Evils of schism. They'll be encouraged to keep writing and saying the same watered-down, defensive things they've been writing and saying.
My hope is that Decker and company start to see that all that pressure is evil and has the effect opposite of its intentions. The only good possibility I see is that some ministers' eyes are opened. That at least a few of them are willing to take the way out of the PRC and to lead members out into a better place where they'll be free of all the evil nonsense.
Which ministers eyes do you think/Hope might be opened?
|
|
|
Post by pemptyr on Oct 19, 2023 21:36:56 GMT
He probably assumed like the rest of these proud ministers that a Third Party Investigation on Sexual Abuse would never occur in the TRUE CHURCH. And yet, well, here we are. Welcome to your Protestant Reformed Churches in America. Enjoy that distinction. Hey PR's, don't hate the messenger. I can personally attest that Nathan Decker has been working to make the 3PI happen and pushed for it to happen while it was still a hypothetical possibility, for what it's worth. I still have a lot of qualms with what he (and others) wrote in the sexual abuse issue of the SB. So many concrete things are wrapped in "ifs" to lighten their impact and aspersions cast in other churches and The World™. Sometimes it's enough for the thing to be the thing. It doesn't have to be about other things. And sometimes we don't have to use "if" if we know that it is a thing that actually happened. There's no "If there has been abuse in the PRC, may God forgive it." There's no "if" that needs to be there. You don't need the if that still keeps hope alive for the possibilities of denominational innocence. Jesus wasn't all like "If they didn't know what they do, Father forgive them." Just let the thing be the thing, and stop putting bubble wrap around it hoping it prevents the edges of the thing from hurting anybody. I don't personally know him but the reason I said what I did is because he was writing something about how God's people in the church are not immune to sexual abuse. Nothing wrong with that but instead of bringing up his own denomination he uses the roman catholic church to get his point across how sexual abuse is in the church world. Doesn't that seem strange that most reformed people believe the rcc is a false church where you don't find salvation, the prc would never use them as an example of good Christian theology or living but if you want to talk about sexual abuse in the true church the rcc seems like a good choice. His article was not about sexual abuse in the false church or the world, that wouldn't surprise any of them.
|
|
|
Post by blindrealist on Oct 19, 2023 22:20:43 GMT
Which ministers eyes do you think/Hope might be opened? Smidstra, Mahtani, Decker, Spronk, McGeown.
Maybe Regnerus, Engelsma, Maatman, Barnhill, Guichelaar, DeBoer. But their family connections are really strong and I'm getting mixed signals. By mixed signals I mean strong commitment to the PRC and the PRC way of looking at and doing things.
Its one thing to think of their eyes being opened and another to think of them taking the step to leave. Then to me its still a question of how much they'd see necessary to put behind them. I can see they would cling to what's old because its comfortable. I don't see them as being as vindictive or as vengeful as the RPC was. There's also the problem of feeling too comfortable and secure in the PRC to leave. But they might feel enough discomfort that it may appear necessary for them to leave. They need to have conscience!
I also think what they do will depend on whether or not they'll be able or willing or even confident enough in each other to network. If they're willing enough to put up with charges or potential charges of schism to develop solid lines of communication and support it'll make a big difference.
Pride is also a factor. They'll need to check their egos out at the door collectively (PRC) and individually. They'll have to realize that they're not going to be big outside the PRC and that they're not going to be able to save the denomination. They'll also need to be able to weather the storms of criticism that will come their way. They'll need to shake off the collective condemnation that will be launched against them and rely on their security in Christ. Closely related is their need to understand that there's no heart for anything good in the PRC as an organization but only for power and control and that to abuse it. It'll help if they remember how those most in need of the church's care are also the most abused by it. It'll especially help if they experience abuse directed toward them because of their efforts to bring about change.
|
|
|
Post by maggie on Oct 19, 2023 22:47:59 GMT
Which ministers eyes do you think/Hope might be opened? Smidstra, Mahtani, Decker, Spronk, McGeown.
Maybe Regnerus, Engelsma, Maatman, Barnhill, Guichelaar, DeBoer. But their family connections are really strong and I'm getting mixed signals. By mixed signals I mean strong commitment to the PRC and the PRC way of looking at and doing things.
Its one thing to think of their eyes being opened and another to think of them taking the step to leave. Then to me its still a question of how much they'd see necessary to put behind them. I can see they would cling to what's old because its comfortable. I don't see them as being as vindictive or as vengeful as the RPC was. There's also the problem of feeling too comfortable and secure in the PRC to leave. But they might feel enough discomfort that it may appear necessary for them to leave. They need to have conscience!
I also think what they do will depend on whether or not they'll be able or willing or even confident enough in each other to network. If they're willing enough to put up with charges or potential charges of schism to develop solid lines of communication and support it'll make a big difference.
Pride is also a factor. They'll need to check their egos out at the door collectively (PRC) and individually. They'll have to realize that they're not going to be big outside the PRC and that they're not going to be able to save the denomination. They'll also need to be able to weather the storms of criticism that will come their way. They'll need to shake off the collective condemnation that will be launched against them and rely on their security in Christ. Closely related is their need to understand that there's no heart for anything good in the PRC as an organization but only for power and control and that to abuse it. It'll help if they remember how those most in need of the church's care are also the most abused by it. It'll especially help if they experience abuse directed toward them because of their efforts to bring about change.
Smidstra is from the CRC which doesn't do shunning. Don't understand why he stays PR with all that's going on.
|
|
|
Post by endthesilence on Oct 19, 2023 23:30:28 GMT
Smidstra, Mahtani, Decker, Spronk, McGeown.
Maybe Regnerus, Engelsma, Maatman, Barnhill, Guichelaar, DeBoer. But their family connections are really strong and I'm getting mixed signals. By mixed signals I mean strong commitment to the PRC and the PRC way of looking at and doing things.
Its one thing to think of their eyes being opened and another to think of them taking the step to leave. Then to me its still a question of how much they'd see necessary to put behind them. I can see they would cling to what's old because its comfortable. I don't see them as being as vindictive or as vengeful as the RPC was. There's also the problem of feeling too comfortable and secure in the PRC to leave. But they might feel enough discomfort that it may appear necessary for them to leave. They need to have conscience!
I also think what they do will depend on whether or not they'll be able or willing or even confident enough in each other to network. If they're willing enough to put up with charges or potential charges of schism to develop solid lines of communication and support it'll make a big difference.
Pride is also a factor. They'll need to check their egos out at the door collectively (PRC) and individually. They'll have to realize that they're not going to be big outside the PRC and that they're not going to be able to save the denomination. They'll also need to be able to weather the storms of criticism that will come their way. They'll need to shake off the collective condemnation that will be launched against them and rely on their security in Christ. Closely related is their need to understand that there's no heart for anything good in the PRC as an organization but only for power and control and that to abuse it. It'll help if they remember how those most in need of the church's care are also the most abused by it. It'll especially help if they experience abuse directed toward them because of their efforts to bring about change.
Smidstra is from the CRC which doesn't do shunning. Don't understand why he stays PR with all that's going on. Probably because he thinks God has work for him to do where he is. That congregation is a bit of an odd duck in West Michigan PR land, possibly because a lot of its small number of families have a parent who wasn't born PR.
|
|
|
Post by cannalily on Oct 22, 2023 12:14:11 GMT
Alas. Another week. Another Sunday, and you're still sitting there like a bump on a log.
|
|
|
Post by Skyfall on Oct 24, 2023 18:05:31 GMT
He probably assumed like the rest of these proud ministers that a Third Party Investigation on Sexual Abuse would never occur in the TRUE CHURCH. And yet, well, here we are. Welcome to your Protestant Reformed Churches in America. Enjoy that distinction. Hey PR's, don't hate the messenger. I can personally attest that Nathan Decker has been working to make the 3PI happen and pushed for it to happen while it was still a hypothetical possibility, for what it's worth. I still have a lot of qualms with what he (and others) wrote in the sexual abuse issue of the SB. So many concrete things are wrapped in "ifs" to lighten their impact and aspersions cast in other churches and The World™. Sometimes it's enough for the thing to be the thing. It doesn't have to be about other things. And sometimes we don't have to use "if" if we know that it is a thing that actually happened. There's no "If there has been abuse in the PRC, may God forgive it." There's no "if" that needs to be there. You don't need the if that still keeps hope alive for the possibilities of denominational innocence. Jesus wasn't all like "If they didn't know what they do, Father forgive them." Just let the thing be the thing, and stop putting bubble wrap around it hoping it prevents the edges of the thing from hurting anybody. Too little, too late. People continue to be victims of this cult.
|
|
|
Post by AgnosticAgain on Oct 28, 2023 14:05:01 GMT
No one is under any obligation to give pedophiles moral authority in their life. That includes you.
|
|
|
Post by igottalightup on Oct 28, 2023 14:22:06 GMT
I can personally attest that Nathan Decker has been working to make the 3PI happen and pushed for it to happen while it was still a hypothetical possibility, for what it's worth. I still have a lot of qualms with what he (and others) wrote in the sexual abuse issue of the SB. So many concrete things are wrapped in "ifs" to lighten their impact and aspersions cast in other churches and The World™. Sometimes it's enough for the thing to be the thing. It doesn't have to be about other things. And sometimes we don't have to use "if" if we know that it is a thing that actually happened. There's no "If there has been abuse in the PRC, may God forgive it." There's no "if" that needs to be there. You don't need the if that still keeps hope alive for the possibilities of denominational innocence. Jesus wasn't all like "If they didn't know what they do, Father forgive them." Just let the thing be the thing, and stop putting bubble wrap around it hoping it prevents the edges of the thing from hurting anybody. Too little, too late. People continue to be victims of this cult. A while back Decker took time off frim preaching to write a book on abuse. Did that book happen?
|
|
|
Post by I once was “l” but now I’m L on Oct 29, 2023 4:38:47 GMT
Too little, too late. People continue to be victims of this cult. A while back Decker took time off frim preaching to write a book on abuse. Did that book happen? I forgot about this! I wonder the same thing
|
|