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Post by freedom on Dec 8, 2021 13:40:21 GMT
I listened to the first episode of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. At the end of the first podcast the host ask why we seek out pastors who charisma outpaces their character. Charisma certainly is the case with Mark Driscoll but not really an issue with the PRC. If you were the host of the Rise and Fall of the PRC what introspective question would you ask? Many sought out Mark Driscoll by choice, but most of us were born into the PRC so that aspect is gone; however, what life lessons have you learned from your experience in the PRC?
Here are some of mine
1) Very suspicious of churches whose preaching heavily emphasizes correct doctrine. Despite what the PRC claims, correct doctrine does not necessarily lead to correct living. It may, but it could just as easily lead to phariseeism. God is after your heart not your theology. The devil knows more theology than DJE.
2) Very suspicious of any sermon's application that is best summarized by "God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector." I have a hard enough time not applying the sermon to someone else or wish that so an so is paying attention, but I do not need any help from the Pastor in this regard.
3) Very suspicious of any pastor who does not actively tell the congregation to grow up and does not want the them to rely on him for advices or direction. Pride is the besetting sin of each person and Pastor's crave being the source of knowledge and truth. After 20 plus years of pastors being the source of biblical truth is then turns to truth on every single subject. If you are required to ask permission from pastors/elders they have created a structure that is more about them and less about His body.
In short, as a result of being in the PRC I very suspicious of any Pastor whose doctrine and theology outpaces their character. If the pastor is not authentic about his own sin then there is little chance the pew people will either.
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Post by curiouscat on Dec 9, 2021 4:50:40 GMT
I never understood why being so heavy on doctrine was so desirable for the PRC. I understand doctrine is literally just "teachings", but somehow they took the rich teachings of the gospel and turned them into something as dry as math formulas.
What I find interesting too is that the PRC thinks it's so "Christ-centered" for knowing the truth, but if you look at most of Christ's ministry, He never really focused much on the nitty gritty cold hard "facts". His ministry focused more on helping and healing; He used the gospel in a practical and effective way, which is something the PRC doesn't put much (if any) value on.
I like to put people in their place when they decide to split hairs over doctrine by reminding them the devil knows the Bible backwards and forwards too. It's not what you know; it's how you use it.
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Post by curiouscat on Dec 9, 2021 4:59:13 GMT
What life lessons have you learned from your experience in the PRC?
The biggest one that comes to mind is don't trust someone until they go through the good AND the bad with you. PRs are great at being happy for you when life is good, and being nowhere to be found when you're struggling. This is especially true when it comes to anything taboo: mental illness, doubts, abuse, addiction, loneliness, infertility, miscarriage...
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Post by Andatlastiseethelight on Dec 9, 2021 13:00:46 GMT
What life lessons have you learned from your experience in the PRC? The biggest one that comes to mind is don't trust someone until they go through the good AND the bad with you. PRs are great at being happy for you when life is good, and being nowhere to be found when you're struggling. This is especially true when it comes to anything taboo: mental illness, doubts, abuse, addiction, loneliness, infertility, miscarriage... This! 🙌🏼 So much truth here. I think there’s a subconscious underlying thought that those things really don’t badly effect those “in the true church”. We “have” the Truth (confidence in having perfect doctrine) and so those things really don’t effect us in this life. I’ve heard this year that everything should be forgiven, without a second thought, without any regard for anything other than that we have been forgiven. Forgiveness of ALL sins are for us to have for everyone without any nuance or boundaries, and must be immediately. So those things—abuse, addiction, loneliness, miscarriage, unexpected death—it doesn’t matter. We ARE like Jesus when we disregard the struggle, humanity. And if we say it with the right words, our faith will save us. (Oh, but we can’t say it that way. It’s implied.) So many twists on who Christ is, and how we are to treat others. And what pride the PRC has in thinking they are the only ones with a patriarchal, guilt-infused structure. (It was a Church-wide issues, all across many denominations.) Been listening to the Mars Hill podcast too—such a great suggestion! |
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Post by throwaway2018 on Dec 9, 2021 14:03:00 GMT
What life lessons have you learned from your experience in the PRC? The biggest one that comes to mind is don't trust someone until they go through the good AND the bad with you. PRs are great at being happy for you when life is good, and being nowhere to be found when you're struggling. This is especially true when it comes to anything taboo: mental illness, doubts, abuse, addiction, loneliness, infertility, miscarriage... When I was PR I was insufferable. I was convinced I was right, 100% confident in my beliefs, and felt a lot of superiority because of it. Realizing I was wrong about something so important to me was devastating. It also changed my perspective on how I viewed other people. Before, I never really internalized the idea that other people with differing beliefs could be just as confident as I was. I thought my confidence was evidence I was right, not evidence I was convinced. Anyways, I've been trying to be more accommodating of other belief systems. And less confident that I'm right about anything. I always try to save room in my mental space for being wrong so that I can more easily accept and move on when I am wrong. It's hard work though and I'm still not very good at it. |
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Post by throwaway2018 on Dec 9, 2021 14:13:45 GMT
I never understood why being so heavy on doctrine was so desirable for the PRC. I understand doctrine is literally just "teachings", but somehow they took the rich teachings of the gospel and turned them into something as dry as math formulas. What I find interesting too is that the PRC thinks it's so "Christ-centered" for knowing the truth, but if you look at most of Christ's ministry, He never really focused much on the nitty gritty cold hard "facts". His ministry focused more on helping and healing; He used the gospel in a practical and effective way, which is something the PRC doesn't put much (if any) value on. I like to put people in their place when they decide to split hairs over doctrine by reminding them the devil knows the Bible backwards and forwards too. It's not what you know; it's how you use it. I truly believe it's because the greatest fear of most PR members is being wrong or being a bad Christian. They split hairs over minor things because making those kinds of detailed decisions about their beliefs makes them feel more confident about what they believe. They blow up these tiny differences and make sure to follow internally consistent rules. Spending all that mental energy on making sure those tiny details are right also prevents you from zooming back out and realizing that the foundations of the religion and reality might be incredibly different from what they're practicing. Basically they're like a car stuck in the mud spinning their wheels. They sit back and think about how they've put so much time and effort into their beliefs. They've worked so tirelessly and really dug into their beliefs for a better understanding. The amount of work they put in must mean they are a really good Christian. They fail to realize they're still stuck in the same place they started. PRs do genuinely care about what they believe, they've just been conditioned to think that the hard work that they're putting in is evidence of their good standing as a Christian. They've never considered that they've started on tons of assumptions and that they may need to back up and consider the big picture that was established in their mind during their childhood before getting down to the nitty gritty details. I think part of it too is that they might not want to consider that their foundation could be off or even entirely wrong. It would mean all the work that they've put in so far to refine their beliefs could be wasted. There's a bit of a sunk cost fallacy coming into play. |
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Post by freedom on Dec 9, 2021 17:52:54 GMT
I’ve heard this year that everything should be forgiven, without a second thought, without any regard for anything other than that we have been forgiven. Forgiveness of ALL sins are for us to have for everyone without any nuance or boundaries, and must be immediately. So those things—abuse, addiction, loneliness, miscarriage, unexpected death—it doesn’t matter. We ARE like Jesus when we disregard the struggle, humanity. Stole this from a facebook meme. He cried. He knew Lazarus was dead before He got the news. But still, He cried. He knew Lazarus would be alive again in a matter of moments. But still, He cried. He knew this world was not His home. He knew death here is not forever. He knew eternity and the Kingdom better than anyone else could. And still, He cried. Because this world is full of pain and regret and loss and depression and disappointment... He cried because knowing the end of the story doesn't mean you can't cry at the sad parts. |
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