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Post by I once was “l” but now I’m L on Jan 5, 2022 17:00:54 GMT
Wondering what everyone’s opinion is on whether the PR churches have a higher level of abuse and other things compared to other churches out there based on experience? Seems like they have a lot going on for such a small denomination but just wondering what everyone’s experience is in other churches!
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Post by profit on Jan 5, 2022 17:17:26 GMT
While other churches and other denominations have made an effort to use psychology and other contemporary tools to help with abuse...the PR church has ignored these means and insist on the ineffective practice of elder led counseling. I think I read on this site: if they change something now...then that would mean they are admitting they have been doing something wrong in the past, so they continue to do it wrong and justify their position. Just the fact that professional counseling is frowned on is a good reason to run from this trap.
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Post by throwaway2018 on Jan 5, 2022 17:36:22 GMT
Wondering what everyone’s opinion is on whether the PR churches have a higher level of abuse and other things compared to other churches out there based on experience? Seems like they have a lot going on for such a small denomination but just wondering what everyone’s experience is in other churches! In the past, my opinion has been that the PR churches do not have a higher level of abuse than other fundamentalist groups. Other high-control groups often have similar abuse and coverup stories. It seems like lately I've been hearing about abuse more and more. I really don't know the answer to your question, but it's one I've also been pondering on a lot lately. I've started to wonder if there are cultural practices common in the PRC that correlate to even higher rates of abuse than other fundamentalist groups, because the amount of abuse stories I've heard in the past two years is truly overwhelming. Christian fundamentalists do have higher rates of abuse than non-fundamentalist people. One study I found says "Christian fundamentalism is positively associated with two of the three measures of partner violence. The greater the level of Christian fundamentalist beliefs among our respondents, the more likely they were to approve of violence and to use violent behavior in their intimate relationships. This lends support to Caps' (1992) and Nason-Clark's (2000) theoretical argument that a fundamentalist beliefs make family violence at least more tolerable if not more overtly likely. It also lends support for the argument that approval and use of corporal punishment, which is more prominent among Christian fundamentalists, may lead to a more general level of violence approval and may increase the likelihood of violent behavior in intimate relationships. Further study is warranted as to the more general effects of authoritarian and patriarchal ideologies leading to aggression among fundamentalists in intimate relationships." Note: fundamentalism was measured using a six-item scale from previous research. The questions are as follows (respondents picked Strongly Agree, Agree, Not Sure, Disagree, or Strongly Disagree): 1. I am sure the Bible contains no errors or contradictions. 2. It is very important for true Christians to believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God 3. The Bible is the final and complete guide to morality; it contains God's answers to all important questions ab right and wrong. 4. Christians shouldn't let themselves be influenced by worldly ideas. 5. Christians must try hard to know and defend the true teachings of God's word. 6. The best education for a Christian child is in a Christian school with Christian teachers. www.jstor.org/stable/20778531There is also research out there that suggests that domestic abuse is higher in regions that more heavily subscribe to traditional gender roles and female submission. I would like to someday get more accurate data on the PRC itself and not just Christian fundamentalism, however I don't think it'll ever actually happen since many in the PRC seem obsessed with covering up abuse. |
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Post by I once was “l” but now I’m L on Jan 5, 2022 17:56:51 GMT
Wondering what everyone’s opinion is on whether the PR churches have a higher level of abuse and other things compared to other churches out there based on experience? Seems like they have a lot going on for such a small denomination but just wondering what everyone’s experience is in other churches! In the past, my opinion has been that the PR churches do not have a higher level of abuse than other fundamentalist groups. Other high-control groups often have similar abuse and coverup stories. It seems like lately I've been hearing about abuse more and more. I really don't know the answer to your question, but it's one I've also been pondering on a lot lately. I've started to wonder if there are cultural practices common in the PRC that correlate to even higher rates of abuse than other fundamentalist groups, because the amount of abuse stories I've heard in the past two years is truly overwhelming. Christian fundamentalists do have higher rates of abuse than non-fundamentalist people. One study I found says "Christian fundamentalism is positively associated with two of the three measures of partner violence. The greater the level of Christian fundamentalist beliefs among our respondents, the more likely they were to approve of violence and to use violent behavior in their intimate relationships. This lends support to Caps' (1992) and Nason-Clark's (2000) theoretical argument that a fundamentalist beliefs make family violence at least more tolerable if not more overtly likely. It also lends support for the argument that approval and use of corporal punishment, which is more prominent among Christian fundamentalists, may lead to a more general level of violence approval and may increase the likelihood of violent behavior in intimate relationships. Further study is warranted as to the more general effects of authoritarian and patriarchal ideologies leading to aggression among fundamentalists in intimate relationships." Note: fundamentalism was measured using a six-item scale from previous research. The questions are as follows (respondents picked Strongly Agree, Agree, Not Sure, Disagree, or Strongly Disagree): 1. I am sure the Bible contains no errors or contradictions. 2. It is very important for true Christians to believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God 3. The Bible is the final and complete guide to morality; it contains God's answers to all important questions ab right and wrong. 4. Christians shouldn't let themselves be influenced by worldly ideas. 5. Christians must try hard to know and defend the true teachings of God's word. 6. The best education for a Christian child is in a Christian school with Christian teachers. www.jstor.org/stable/20778531There is also research out there that suggests that domestic abuse is higher in regions that more heavily subscribe to traditional gender roles and female submission. I would like to someday get more accurate data on the PRC itself and not just Christian fundamentalism, however I don't think it'll ever actually happen since many in the PRC seem obsessed with covering up abuse. Another group that has high levels of abuse is the Independant fundamental Baptist churches |
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Post by questioneverything on Jan 5, 2022 20:22:58 GMT
Wondering what everyone’s opinion is on whether the PR churches have a higher level of abuse and other things compared to other churches out there based on experience? Seems like they have a lot going on for such a small denomination but just wondering what everyone’s experience is in other churches! In the past, my opinion has been that the PR churches do not have a higher level of abuse than other fundamentalist groups. Other high-control groups often have similar abuse and coverup stories. It seems like lately I've been hearing about abuse more and more. I really don't know the answer to your question, but it's one I've also been pondering on a lot lately. I've started to wonder if there are cultural practices common in the PRC that correlate to even higher rates of abuse than other fundamentalist groups, because the amount of abuse stories I've heard in the past two years is truly overwhelming. Christian fundamentalists do have higher rates of abuse than non-fundamentalist people. One study I found says "Christian fundamentalism is positively associated with two of the three measures of partner violence. The greater the level of Christian fundamentalist beliefs among our respondents, the more likely they were to approve of violence and to use violent behavior in their intimate relationships. This lends support to Caps' (1992) and Nason-Clark's (2000) theoretical argument that a fundamentalist beliefs make family violence at least more tolerable if not more overtly likely. It also lends support for the argument that approval and use of corporal punishment, which is more prominent among Christian fundamentalists, may lead to a more general level of violence approval and may increase the likelihood of violent behavior in intimate relationships. Further study is warranted as to the more general effects of authoritarian and patriarchal ideologies leading to aggression among fundamentalists in intimate relationships." Note: fundamentalism was measured using a six-item scale from previous research. The questions are as follows (respondents picked Strongly Agree, Agree, Not Sure, Disagree, or Strongly Disagree): 1. I am sure the Bible contains no errors or contradictions. 2. It is very important for true Christians to believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God 3. The Bible is the final and complete guide to morality; it contains God's answers to all important questions ab right and wrong. 4. Christians shouldn't let themselves be influenced by worldly ideas. 5. Christians must try hard to know and defend the true teachings of God's word. 6. The best education for a Christian child is in a Christian school with Christian teachers. www.jstor.org/stable/20778531There is also research out there that suggests that domestic abuse is higher in regions that more heavily subscribe to traditional gender roles and female submission. I would like to someday get more accurate data on the PRC itself and not just Christian fundamentalism, however I don't think it'll ever actually happen since many in the PRC seem obsessed with covering up abuse. This is completely anecdotal and not a study, but a couple years back I met a psychotherapist at an event and we got to talking about abuse, trauma, and the detrimental consequences it has on mental wellbeing. I came to mention the Protestant Reformed Church within our conversation and immediately this therapist said, oh, the Protestant Reformed Church is WELL known among West Michigan therapists as a place where abuse is prevalent and therapy is often required. I came back with, your field is probably only helping a minority of those who need it within that PR place. And all this pain and suffering from such a diminutive group. |
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Post by Andatlastiseethelight on Jan 5, 2022 20:28:05 GMT
I think the flavor of the individual churches enhance the culpability to certain abuses more than others.
If secrets are ok (and vulnerability is seen as weakness), you better believe that abuse can thrive in that environment.
If those in charge really don’t know the scope of their position, and all the possible situations they be thrown in, then there may be unmet expectations on part of congregation, or lack of oversight on the minister.
If a woman wearing pants causes others to stumble, they have already set the bar very low in their own use of self control.
You better believe denominationally, the PRC is not more special than any other conservative religious group. This happens throughout much of the Church in various ways.
So much need for reform, education, space for women to have a voice, and children to know that they are being protected from harm (physically/sexually).
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Post by NotSureWhatToPutHere on Jan 5, 2022 20:28:46 GMT
I don't know if abuse is higher.... but I think that in churches that are not transparent, abuse is very high. The church that I attended after I left the PRC was very abusive... they protected the abusers, not the victims. They kept quiet about abuse... one person (after we left) hit his son so badly that the school that child attended, called the police and took child to the hospital. A teacher took the child in.... then on FB I saw people "comforting" the parents and sending them articles on "how children can break our hearts" and crap like that. I was SO angry when I saw that... the parents obviously lied about how badly they beat (disciplined according to them) their child. But the church obviously didn't talk to the child.. just took the parents word. There are other instances in that church where the church supported and protected the abusers and they continue to do so. I know because I have friends there and they will tell me stuff... but because I know people who have left, or people who were victimized.. I know what is being covered up. I have tried to get my friend to leave.. but they are so ingrained in the church and just don't know where they would go. It makes me sad!
As for the PRC... because of the Me Too movement and because victims are finding their voices, some truth is coming out.
As for other fundamental churches, with Josh Duggers latest fall into shame and now in jail, some people are realizing that church isn't always a safe place and are hopefully talking to their kids and teaching them about their bodies and that other people touching them isn't ok.
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Post by throwaway2018 on Jan 5, 2022 20:52:06 GMT
In the past, my opinion has been that the PR churches do not have a higher level of abuse than other fundamentalist groups. Other high-control groups often have similar abuse and coverup stories. It seems like lately I've been hearing about abuse more and more. I really don't know the answer to your question, but it's one I've also been pondering on a lot lately. I've started to wonder if there are cultural practices common in the PRC that correlate to even higher rates of abuse than other fundamentalist groups, because the amount of abuse stories I've heard in the past two years is truly overwhelming. Christian fundamentalists do have higher rates of abuse than non-fundamentalist people. One study I found says "Christian fundamentalism is positively associated with two of the three measures of partner violence. The greater the level of Christian fundamentalist beliefs among our respondents, the more likely they were to approve of violence and to use violent behavior in their intimate relationships. This lends support to Caps' (1992) and Nason-Clark's (2000) theoretical argument that a fundamentalist beliefs make family violence at least more tolerable if not more overtly likely. It also lends support for the argument that approval and use of corporal punishment, which is more prominent among Christian fundamentalists, may lead to a more general level of violence approval and may increase the likelihood of violent behavior in intimate relationships. Further study is warranted as to the more general effects of authoritarian and patriarchal ideologies leading to aggression among fundamentalists in intimate relationships." Note: fundamentalism was measured using a six-item scale from previous research. The questions are as follows (respondents picked Strongly Agree, Agree, Not Sure, Disagree, or Strongly Disagree): 1. I am sure the Bible contains no errors or contradictions. 2. It is very important for true Christians to believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God 3. The Bible is the final and complete guide to morality; it contains God's answers to all important questions ab right and wrong. 4. Christians shouldn't let themselves be influenced by worldly ideas. 5. Christians must try hard to know and defend the true teachings of God's word. 6. The best education for a Christian child is in a Christian school with Christian teachers. www.jstor.org/stable/20778531There is also research out there that suggests that domestic abuse is higher in regions that more heavily subscribe to traditional gender roles and female submission. I would like to someday get more accurate data on the PRC itself and not just Christian fundamentalism, however I don't think it'll ever actually happen since many in the PRC seem obsessed with covering up abuse. Another group that has high levels of abuse is the Independant fundamental Baptist churches The authors of the study I mentioned mentioned being interested if corporeal punishment during childhood was associated with higher domestic violence rates in adulthood. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the book "To Train Up a Child" by Michael and Debi Pearl. It's common in IFB circles - I don't think I've ever heard a PR recommend it but I wouldn't be surprised to hear of PRs reading it too. Anyways, "To Train Up a Child" details the process of blanket training babies. The idea is that you put a baby on a blanket with a toy and if the baby moves off the blanket at all, you physically slap them with a ruler or other object in order to teach them to stay on it. I personally have never heard a PR endorse such a practice, but they don't exactly shy away from corporeal punishment, even for very young children. I would not be shocked if these sorts of abuses during child rearing do contribute to higher rates of domestic violence later in life. |
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Post by I once was “l” but now I’m L on Jan 5, 2022 22:32:16 GMT
Another group that has high levels of abuse is the Independant fundamental Baptist churches The authors of the study I mentioned mentioned being interested if corporeal punishment during childhood was associated with higher domestic violence rates in adulthood. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the book "To Train Up a Child" by Michael and Debi Pearl. It's common in IFB circles - I don't think I've ever heard a PR recommend it but I wouldn't be surprised to hear of PRs reading it too. Anyways, "To Train Up a Child" details the process of blanket training babies. The idea is that you put a baby on a blanket with a toy and if the baby moves off the blanket at all, you physically slap them with a ruler or other object in order to teach them to stay on it. I personally have never heard a PR endorse such a practice, but they don't exactly shy away from corporeal punishment, even for very young children. I would not be shocked if these sorts of abuses during child rearing do contribute to higher rates of domestic violence later in life. I have heard of the Pearls and their terrible blanket training practice. They are not good people. |
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Post by questioneverything on Jan 9, 2022 21:40:28 GMT
While other churches and other denominations have made an effort to use psychology and other contemporary tools to help with abuse...the PR church has ignored these means and insist on the ineffective practice of elder led counseling. I think I read on this site: if they change something now...then that would mean they are admitting they have been doing something wrong in the past, so they continue to do it wrong and justify their position. Just the fact that professional counseling is frowned on is a good reason to run from this trap. Elder led counseling IS abuse and needs to stop. |
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Post by thatonegirl on Feb 9, 2022 0:55:33 GMT
There is definitely more truth coming to light with women speaking out, but they still have such a long ways to go. I do believe abuse is higher in the PR churches
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Post by tryingtoleave on Feb 9, 2022 18:41:34 GMT
I don't know if abuse is higher.... but I think that in churches that are not transparent, abuse is very high. The church that I attended after I left the PRC was very abusive... they protected the abusers, not the victims. They kept quiet about abuse... one person (after we left) hit his son so badly that the school that child attended, called the police and took child to the hospital. A teacher took the child in.... then on FB I saw people "comforting" the parents and sending them articles on "how children can break our hearts" and crap like that. I was SO angry when I saw that... the parents obviously lied about how badly they beat (disciplined according to them) their child. But the church obviously didn't talk to the child.. just took the parents word. There are other instances in that church where the church supported and protected the abusers and they continue to do so. I know because I have friends there and they will tell me stuff... but because I know people who have left, or people who were victimized.. I know what is being covered up. I have tried to get my friend to leave.. but they are so ingrained in the church and just don't know where they would go. It makes me sad! As for the PRC... because of the Me Too movement and because victims are finding their voices, some truth is coming out. As for other fundamental churches, with Josh Duggers latest fall into shame and now in jail, some people are realizing that church isn't always a safe place and are hopefully talking to their kids and teaching them about their bodies and that other people touching them isn't ok. Has anyone read the book "The Devil Inside" by Jimmy Hinton. It's about a minister who found out his father (who was also a minister) had been sexual abusing children for years. He then did extensive interviews with his father about how pedophiles think and act and now he goes around to churches and schools and teaches them the warning signs and things to watch out for and things you can put in place to try to avoid those situations. It is a very interesting book, but one of the things he says in there is that churches are known to be the most dangerous place for children and the safest place for sex offenders and abusers. |
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Post by leslin on Feb 10, 2022 3:22:49 GMT
Jimmy Hinton also has a great podcast addressing a lot of issues the PRC is now dealing with. Recent episode titled “how to handle a spiritual abuser” was great.
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Post by Skyfall on Feb 10, 2022 16:34:46 GMT
Wondering what everyone’s opinion is on whether the PR churches have a higher level of abuse and other things compared to other churches out there based on experience? Seems like they have a lot going on for such a small denomination but just wondering what everyone’s experience is in other churches! A better comparison would be to compare this to other cults as opposed to churches. exprc.freeforums.net/thread/347/common-characteristics-cults-operateNon denominations tend to be way less in the abuse category than this hierarchy. |
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Post by fellowhuman on Feb 14, 2022 17:20:43 GMT
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