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Post by pemptyr on Jan 7, 2022 6:34:01 GMT
I think the shunning thing comes down to a couple of things: a radical view of the “antithetical life”. Those in the world will indoctrinate you, and you must remain pure. You are “denying the covenant.” Not sure when the NT came into effect. Apparently, we are in the OT when it suits us. And a subliminal message of coercive control. It’s unstated, but it’s understood—you leave “purest preaching of the word”, you are condemning yourself to hell. —turning your back on God. (Since god is the church.) If only more PRs would realize, it’s a tactic to keep you in submission, and fearful of anything from the outside. Feel like the moms in the church guilt trip the most, and can be incredibly cold/calloused. I believe your right. I remember many many years ago my grandfather said something about someone being shunned and said it was a sin they were doing that to that person. So I asked him why he didnt speak up about it, he was an elder for a while. Anyways he said he couldn't or they would kick him out of the church. Even back then people were afraid of the aholes that call themselves leaders in the prc.
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Post by throwaway2018 on Jan 7, 2022 14:23:55 GMT
I think the shunning thing comes down to a couple of things: a radical view of the “antithetical life”. Those in the world will indoctrinate you, and you must remain pure. You are “denying the covenant.” Not sure when the NT came into effect. Apparently, we are in the OT when it suits us. And a subliminal message of coercive control. It’s unstated, but it’s understood—you leave “purest preaching of the word”, you are condemning yourself to hell. —turning your back on God. (Since god is the church.) If only more PRs would realize, it’s a tactic to keep you in submission, and fearful of anything from the outside. Feel like the moms in the church guilt trip the most, and can be incredibly cold/calloused.(Bold added above by me) I've quite often thought the same things as you. Stay-at-home-moms and young children are the most isolated groups in the church. They are the ones with the least meaningful contact with the non-PR world. They don't have non-PR coworkers, they very likely don't have non-PR friends, and they might not even have non-PR family members. Women are very capable of empathy and care for others, but in fundamentalist churches they're kept from situations where those bonds can form. They're constantly fed sermons about "the world". The world wants to see them sin, the world wants to get their children and indoctrinate them into false religions, the world hates their traditional lifestyle and looks down on it, the world will one day persecute them. These messages are terrifying when you don't have contact with "the world" to realize things aren't as doom and gloom as the church preaches. The effects of the sermons about "the world" are varying. For the people who have frequent positive experiences with "the world", it pulls them back into the idea that the PRC is still better or that the people they know outside the PR are exceptions to the rule. It's a seesaw for them where they swing between positive and negative views of people outside the PRC. For those who don't have hardly any positive experiences with the world, it's just a message that pushes them further and further into isolation from that world, and primes them to always think the worst of anyone who is outside or who would leave.
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Post by Andatlastiseethelight on Jan 7, 2022 19:28:22 GMT
I think the shunning thing comes down to a couple of things: a radical view of the “antithetical life”. Those in the world will indoctrinate you, and you must remain pure. You are “denying the covenant.” Not sure when the NT came into effect. Apparently, we are in the OT when it suits us. And a subliminal message of coercive control. It’s unstated, but it’s understood—you leave “purest preaching of the word”, you are condemning yourself to hell. —turning your back on God. (Since god is the church.) If only more PRs would realize, it’s a tactic to keep you in submission, and fearful of anything from the outside. Feel like the moms in the church guilt trip the most, and can be incredibly cold/calloused.(Bold added above by me) I've quite often thought the same things as you. Stay-at-home-moms and young children are the most isolated groups in the church. They are the ones with the least meaningful contact with the non-PR world. They don't have non-PR coworkers, they very likely don't have non-PR friends, and they might not even have non-PR family members. Women are very capable of empathy and care for others, but in fundamentalist churches they're kept from situations where those bonds can form. They're constantly fed sermons about "the world". The world wants to see them sin, the world wants to get their children and indoctrinate them into false religions, the world hates their traditional lifestyle and looks down on it, the world will one day persecute them. These messages are terrifying when you don't have contact with "the world" to realize things aren't as doom and gloom as the church preaches. The effects of the sermons about "the world" are varying. For the people who have frequent positive experiences with "the world", it pulls them back into the idea that the PRC is still better or that the people they know outside the PR are exceptions to the rule. It's a seesaw for them where they swing between positive and negative views of people outside the PRC. For those who don't have hardly any positive experiences with the world, it's just a message that pushes them further and further into isolation from that world, and primes them to always think the worst of anyone who is outside or who would leave. Seesaw is right— the seesaw of manipulation/coercive control= Coming to us for your answers (though we don’t really know how to handle it right). But the world (even though they see this all the time—they are wicked), even if they may have strategies that may help with our relational issues. Cannot love your post better! 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
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Post by falteringfeet on Jan 20, 2022 1:13:14 GMT
Shunning is so important and biblical to PRs that it's worth tearing marriages apart. The added benefit for the PRC is that once you put someone low (as I think many here have experienced after leaving), you can use that for the rest of their life as justification for all sorts of things, including discrediting that person's opinion or belief on anything, and to attempt to keep a parent from their kids, so they can continue to fully brainwash them with their doctrines.
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Post by Andatlastiseethelight on Jan 20, 2022 3:05:20 GMT
Shunning is so important and biblical to PRs that it's worth tearing marriages apart. The added benefit for the PRC is that once you put someone low (as I think many here have experienced after leaving), you can use that for the rest of their life as justification for all sorts of things, including discrediting that person's opinion or belief on anything, and to attempt to keep a parent from their kids, so they can continue to fully brainwash them with their doctrines. And the cycle of coercive control continues. . .
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Whisper
Seminary Student
Posts: 452
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Post by Whisper on Jan 20, 2022 12:54:37 GMT
Shunning is so important and biblical to PRs that it's worth tearing marriages apart. The added benefit for the PRC is that once you put someone low (as I think many here have experienced after leaving), you can use that for the rest of their life as justification for all sorts of things, including discrediting that person's opinion or belief on anything, and to attempt to keep a parent from their kids, so they can continue to fully brainwash them with their doctrines. My experience exactly.
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Post by fellowhuman on Jan 21, 2022 16:39:16 GMT
Shunning is so important and biblical to PRs that it's worth tearing marriages apart. The added benefit for the PRC is that once you put someone low (as I think many here have experienced after leaving), you can use that for the rest of their life as justification for all sorts of things, including discrediting that person's opinion or belief on anything, and to attempt to keep a parent from their kids, so they can continue to fully brainwash them with their doctrines. If they can fit anything into their narrative to their advantage, they will. It doesn't matter how much you lost visibly in terms of direction, relationships, identity, etc. It doesn't matter that a subset of them actively put you down or talk down to you. All the emotional damage they see will always be a spiritual malady, because it's convenient for them to think that. Terribly aggravating.
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Post by cannalily on Feb 8, 2022 1:08:10 GMT
I don't know why I'm so shocked by these results... I probably shouldn't be, because I've heard of quite a few shunnings... but almost 1/2 of the churches in the PRC have people in them that are shunning family/former friends/relatives... even though that is not the "official" practice of the PR church. And yet no one does anything about it... That’s the crazy thing- it’s approved by the higher ups- so nobody cares. How Christian!
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Post by falteringfeet on Feb 8, 2022 1:38:30 GMT
Here are the bible sections used to justify "withholding fellowship" (not be be confused with shunning). This is in cases of excommunication, which is different than someone pulling their papers to go to another church, though the PRC often considers it to be the same thing.
I Corinthians 5 Lord Day 31 Q 83-84 Lev. 24 Mathew 18 Matthew 16 2 Thessalonians 3 Titus 3
None of these chapters mention this being done out of love. Lev. 24 is quite the opposite.
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Post by profit on Feb 8, 2022 16:38:44 GMT
Here are the bible sections used to justify "withholding fellowship" (not be be confused with shunning). This is in cases of excommunication, which is different than someone pulling their papers to go to another church, though the PRC often considers it to be the same thing. I Corinthians 5 Lord Day 31 Q 83-84 Lev. 24 Mathew 18 Matthew 16 2 Thessalonians 3 Titus 3 None of these chapters mention this being done out of love. Lev. 24 is quite the opposite. it is terrible how this church has conducted itself towards the non-PR neighbor and especially at the neighbor who was courageous enough to leave the cult. if you have the truth, if you trust God's providence, then why the fear of the outsider. the proof of a cult is in their behavior. don't trust the outsider. why the control to keep folks insulated? because cult. i don't feel like doing the work at the moment, but i could find dozens of verses that prove we are to love our neighbor despite church membership. instead, i'll share what i read this morning: "you shall love your neighbor as yourself. love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law" Romands 13:9b-10 "as for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions" Romans 14:1
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Post by questioneverything on Feb 8, 2022 17:20:16 GMT
Here are the bible sections used to justify "withholding fellowship" (not be be confused with shunning). This is in cases of excommunication, which is different than someone pulling their papers to go to another church, though the PRC often considers it to be the same thing. I Corinthians 5 Lord Day 31 Q 83-84 Lev. 24 Mathew 18 Matthew 16 2 Thessalonians 3 Titus 3 None of these chapters mention this being done out of love. Lev. 24 is quite the opposite. it is terrible how this church has conducted itself towards the non-PR neighbor and especially at the neighbor who was courageous enough to leave the cult. if you have the truth, if you trust God's providence, then why the fear of the outsider. the proof of a cult is in their behavior. don't trust the outsider. why the control to keep folks insulated? because cult. i don't feel like doing the work at the moment, but i could find dozens of verses that prove we are to love our neighbor despite church membership. instead, i'll share what i read this morning: "you shall love your neighbor as yourself. love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law" Romands 13:9b-10 "as for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions" Romans 14:1 "You shall conditionally love your PR neighbor as your PR self, conditional love does no wrong to a PR neighbor if they toe the line, therefore conditional love is the fulfilling of PR law." "As for the one who is weak in faith, suspiciously welcome him, in order to inculcate him with your dogma."
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Post by cannalily on Feb 8, 2022 17:59:26 GMT
Here are the bible sections used to justify "withholding fellowship" (not be be confused with shunning). This is in cases of excommunication, which is different than someone pulling their papers to go to another church, though the PRC often considers it to be the same thing. I Corinthians 5 Lord Day 31 Q 83-84 Lev. 24 Mathew 18 Matthew 16 2 Thessalonians 3 Titus 3 None of these chapters mention this being done out of love. Lev. 24 is quite the opposite. Oh sure! This is excuse for bad behavior. Just like how the PRC always rails against others because they don't take the interpretation of the bible correctly - the arminians, etc, yeah. This right here? Let's stone those who left. let's keep the cult alive. You can make the bible say anything, and the PRC are experts at it. Take them out of their little boxes though, and you see how weak they really are.
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Post by profit on Feb 8, 2022 18:09:07 GMT
"You shall conditionally love your PR neighbor as your PR self, conditional love does no wrong to a PR neighbor if they toe the line, therefore conditional love is the fulfilling of PR law." "As for the one who is weak in faith, suspiciously welcome him, in order to inculcate him with your dogma." comedy, but also frightening. i believe this dark misinterpretation happens, consciously or not, the cultural similitude creates radicalism to the point that scriptura is interpreted to be hateful. these modern day pharisees require more grace in their eisegesis.
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Post by freefromprc on Feb 14, 2022 21:54:27 GMT
Here are the bible sections used to justify "withholding fellowship" (not be be confused with shunning). This is in cases of excommunication, which is different than someone pulling their papers to go to another church, though the PRC often considers it to be the same thing. I Corinthians 5 Lord Day 31 Q 83-84 Lev. 24 Mathew 18 Matthew 16 2 Thessalonians 3 Titus 3 None of these chapters mention this being done out of love. Lev. 24 is quite the opposite. Just in case anyone doesn’t get confused, Lords day 31 isn’t the Bible….
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