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Post by Skyfall on Sept 10, 2015 12:36:19 GMT
Unfortunately, the question isn't as black and white as the prc makes it. That rag, the 'standard bearer', tries to make a standard for spirituality. That's the first error. The standard bearer is as misleading to Christians as the news media is to the general public. What nerve for the prc to claim they know if a person goes to heaven or hell! A person so deeply involved in their own emotions to go as far as suicide leaves a massive wake of sorrow behind in the people they leave behind. I can't imagine the sorrow that is added to those who are misguided by this cult to believe their loved ones go to hell. The crazy thing is that the belief that suicide means hell because a person doesn't have time to repent, falls right into works righteousness. We aren't saved because WE repent, are we? What a screwed up mess the prc has made of doctrine. Wait a second......quote for me where the pr says that you are going to hell or heaven. Give me a direct honest quote! And do you think God truly intended for one of His to take their life? No matter the difficulties a child of God bears there is Christ to sustain us. We are' not' saved because we repent..... But as children of His don't we WANT to? You people are twisting everything to what 'you' want others to believe. If one truly believes in predestination and election and the forgiveness of sins then live that way. Stop casting your judgement on our churches. Just live the way Christ intends you to live. Sure, bitterness happens and sin must be confronted. Don't spew your hatred. Confront it. Live Christlike. Many prayers are with you stillPRC said this: So either the person committing sin is not a Christian, therefore going to hell, or going to heaven with "unrepented sin". The point here is that you're saying that the PRC is not coming out and saying that if you commit suicide nowhere does it say in any of the PRC literature (that I could find, anyway) that it's an automatic "hell bound" sentence. There's one thing that everybody overlooks when it comes to the PRC, and it's their "get out of jail free" card. Here, Truth used it. It's assumptions. Any twice-a-day church-going PRC knows that assumptions are alive an well in the PRC - quite possibly for this very reason. If you were to talk to any other Twice-a-dayer, the above sentence ASSUMES that if you committed suicide, you're going to hell, because, as stillPRC points out, "God keeps Christians from committing that sin". So either you're not a Christian, or you're committing suicide - but not both. Assumptions work great in the PRC...you can assume anything, and the assumption stand! But now it just occurred to me why the PRC has assumptions! It's exactly for reasons like this! And you got to use them perfectly! So, which is it, Prodigal Son?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 12:57:24 GMT
Unfortunately, the question isn't as black and white as the prc makes it. That rag, the 'standard bearer', tries to make a standard for spirituality. That's the first error. The standard bearer is as misleading to Christians as the news media is to the general public. What nerve for the prc to claim they know if a person goes to heaven or hell! A person so deeply involved in their own emotions to go as far as suicide leaves a massive wake of sorrow behind in the people they leave behind. I can't imagine the sorrow that is added to those who are misguided by this cult to believe their loved ones go to hell. The crazy thing is that the belief that suicide means hell because a person doesn't have time to repent, falls right into works righteousness. We aren't saved because WE repent, are we? What a screwed up mess the prc has made of doctrine. Wait a second......quote for me where the pr says that you are going to hell or heaven. Give me a direct honest quote! And do you think God truly intended for one of His to take their life? No matter the difficulties a child of God bears there is Christ to sustain us. We are' not' saved because we repent..... But as children of His don't we WANT to? You people are twisting everything to what 'you' want others to believe. If one truly believes in predestination and election and the forgiveness of sins then live that way. Stop casting your judgement on our churches. Just live the way Christ intends you to live. Sure, bitterness happens and sin must be confronted. Don't spew your hatred. Confront it. Live Christlike. Many prayers are with you "...if you were raised PR you were taught that suicide is a sin, God keeps Christians from committing that sin because you cannot repent of it." - stillprc
There is your quote, truth. It is from a pr, if stillprc is being honest and "truth"ful. The quote is the reason for this discussion. I wonder if the prc is not doing a good job of teaching their congregants what the prc really believes about suicide and the victim's judgment. I've asked a few other pr people, and I know this is just anecdotal evidence, but they maintained the same impression as stillprc from what they were taught. Why is this? Is it a belief that is not maintained by the prc but is allowed because of its fear factor and efficacy in behavior control? It's good that you come to this site, but know this is a site devoted to those who have left or are thinking of leaving. Your input is welcomed, at least by me, but don't expect the homogeneous thoughts and behavior of your pr world. People here do have anger and disagreement with the prc, and many have been hurt, some very deeply, by the prc. Others do not agree with the prc's teachings and feel they have no avenue for discussion within the prc, let alone within their circle of friends and family. Just the way you used the term " You people" shows the dualistic, us vs. them, right vs. wrong, arrogant, sectarian pr attitude so prevalent and obvious in the posts of this forum (yes, there was some anger in that sentence). However, disagreement and discussion is not " twisting everything", and certainly is not trying to get anyone to believe in what "we" want. You then go on to use the words " truly believes in predestination and election" with "the forgiveness of sins". Why not just use the term forgiveness? Is the belief in predestination and election a precursor to, or a requirement for forgiveness? You intimate so and according to some of the posts on this site, it is. People have been shunned for joining churches that do not teach this. Some have been shunned for going to another denomination that does teach this, only not in the approved pr way, I expect. Why is this? Is it the fear factor and behavior control method again? Thankfully, we then come to your statement, " Stop casting your judgement on our churches." It's good to throw in some comedic irony once in a while. Thanks.
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Post by wallflower on Sept 10, 2015 13:09:55 GMT
Just ask me your question. and what quote? Wait, was it 'is suicide the unforgivable sin'? No. It's not. But would you really want to go there? I have to answer for my own sins. Not yours. Just mine. I can't fathom taking my life and truly not know where I'll end up. Scary stuff right there What a disgusting post. In your mind there's no room for someone who's struggling with mental illness. All you care about is yourself. What a typical PR person. Thank you for pointing that out.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 16:15:46 GMT
Wait, was it 'is suicide the unforgivable sin'? No. It's not. But would you really want to go there? I have to answer for my own sins. Not yours. Just mine. I can't fathom taking my life and truly not know where I'll end up. Scary stuff right there What a disgusting post. In your mind there's no room for someone who's struggling with mental illness. All you care about is yourself. What a typical PR person. Thank you for pointing that out. Hmmm makes me think of a biblical story... "Am I my brothers keeper?" Read Oswald Chambers on that subject. utmost.org/am-i-my-brother%E2%80%99s-keeper/Hope this is okay, and not against the "rules" of this forum.
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Post by cannalily on Sept 10, 2015 21:35:40 GMT
Wow, serious arrogance from you cannalily. Being raised pr we are taught suicide is a sin. Again, the unforgivable sin? No. I personally teach my children suicide IS a sin. I can't even begin to imagine how I would be if that happened. Just the not knowing where my loved one is. Thankful I'm not the judge on that one. But again, please give me the quote and who said it on whoever commits suicide is going to hell. If you believe that committing suicide doesn't automatically damn a soul to hell, then why would you question where your loved one is? The fact that this is a question in your mind, gives evidence to your beliefs. You DO think they go to hell. You just don't want to be hateful enough to admit it. Deductive reasoning!...and you're right on! Of course my guess the lurker will never admit to this, but at least we're at the bottom of it. Thanks Skyfall too. - Assumptive reasoning is rampant in this cult as well.
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Post by freefromprc on Sept 10, 2015 23:07:35 GMT
Unfortunately, the question isn't as black and white as the prc makes it. That rag, the 'standard bearer', tries to make a standard for spirituality. That's the first error. The standard bearer is as misleading to Christians as the news media is to the general public. What nerve for the prc to claim they know if a person goes to heaven or hell! A person so deeply involved in their own emotions to go as far as suicide leaves a massive wake of sorrow behind in the people they leave behind. I can't imagine the sorrow that is added to those who are misguided by this cult to believe their loved ones go to hell. The crazy thing is that the belief that suicide means hell because a person doesn't have time to repent, falls right into works righteousness. We aren't saved because WE repent, are we? What a screwed up mess the prc has made of doctrine. Wait a second......quote for me where the pr says that you are going to hell or heaven. Give me a direct honest quote! And do you think God truly intended for one of His to take their life? No matter the difficulties a child of God bears there is Christ to sustain us. We are' not' saved because we repent..... But as children of His don't we WANT to? If one truly believes in predestination and election and the forgiveness of sins then live that way. Stop casting your judgement on our churches. Just live the way Christ intends you to live. Sure, bitterness happens and sin must be confronted. Don't spew your hatred. Confront it. Live Christlike. Many prayers are with you Almost laughable. Your username is as dishonest as your cult. If your practices were in writing, you would not be able to exist as a church. Nowhere do you actually write down that members should shun members who leave, yet it happens with precision. You bring up your children so that by time they reach puberty, they are deformed instead of reformed. They are unable to make decisions other than what they were programmed to make. It is statistically unsustainable that the number of PR children who join the PR church are truly drawn there by the holy spirit. They are TAUGHT to be pr. They are simply doing what they are taught. If they disobey what they are taught, they are socially scorned and banned from associating in any meaningful way with other members, family or not. You teach that this is internal growth, and think it is healthy. It is completely twisted. I can tell you that the thought of leaving the prc once brought up in it can bring a person to their psychological ruin. If this results in suicide, no one is to blame but your shell church. If you think you can post on here that suicide doesn't equal hell in the PRC church you are delusional. Of course it is unwritten. Just like someone who doesn't use the PR school cannot serve in office. For many many years it was an unwritten rule, EVERYONE knew it, but it wasn't in writing . The Dick case forced it into writing, and even then you have to read between the lines.
You think you know what God intends? How arrogant! GOD doesn't govern his decisions by your cute little rules. He is a lot bigger than you can imagine - I know this from experience since leaving your cult.
You say, You people are twisting everything to what 'you' want others to believe. I beg to differ. We twist nothing. The only twisting we do is try to unwind the twisted minds you have created. And you actually have a problem with twisting everything to what we want others to believe? You guys are the MASTERS of twisting OTHERS to conform to what YOU believe. The only difference is, you work with programmed parents and then program their children. These children know nothing else! It is borderline criminal!
You say, stop casting your judgment on our churches? Your cults KILL families! You think you can destroy families and expect no repercussions? The only amazing thing is how long it has taken for a site to be formed for people to band together and figure out that the problem is not them, it is the PRC!
Bitterness? Hatred? Read Hosea 13:8 to get a feel for the energy behind this site. YOU have started this site. The PRC provided the energy, the reasons, the cause for this site. Its interesting that the PRC had to teach me that the PRC is not a cult. What kind of church needs to take time to teach its members that its not a cult? Think about it.
Instead of fervently praying for us, peel back the layers of arrogance and do some soul searching. ask around if anyone has been cut off from family for leaving the prc. Go visit them and find out if its true for yourself. then come back here and report - and earn the name TRUTH.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 23:20:24 GMT
Wait a second......quote for me where the pr says that you are going to hell or heaven. Give me a direct honest quote! And do you think God truly intended for one of His to take their life? No matter the difficulties a child of God bears there is Christ to sustain us. We are' not' saved because we repent..... But as children of His don't we WANT to? If one truly believes in predestination and election and the forgiveness of sins then live that way. Stop casting your judgement on our churches. Just live the way Christ intends you to live. Sure, bitterness happens and sin must be confronted. Don't spew your hatred. Confront it. Live Christlike. Many prayers are with you YOU have started this site.
Now, there is some truth.
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Post by KristianWrights on Sept 10, 2015 23:59:01 GMT
Wait a second......quote for me where the pr says that you are going to hell or heaven. Give me a direct honest quote! And do you think God truly intended for one of His to take their life? No matter the difficulties a child of God bears there is Christ to sustain us. We are' not' saved because we repent..... But as children of His don't we WANT to? If one truly believes in predestination and election and the forgiveness of sins then live that way. Stop casting your judgement on our churches. Just live the way Christ intends you to live. Sure, bitterness happens and sin must be confronted. Don't spew your hatred. Confront it. Live Christlike. Many prayers are with you Almost laughable. Your username is as dishonest as your cult. If your practices were in writing, you would not be able to exist as a church. Nowhere do you actually write down that members should shun members who leave, yet it happens with precision. You bring up your children so that by time they reach puberty, they are deformed instead of reformed. They are unable to make decisions other than what they were programmed to make. It is statistically unsustainable that the number of PR children who join the PR church are truly drawn there by the holy spirit. They are TAUGHT to be pr. They are simply doing what they are taught. If they disobey what they are taught, they are socially scorned and banned from associating in any meaningful way with other members, family or not. You teach that this is internal growth, and think it is healthy. It is completely twisted. I can tell you that the thought of leaving the prc once brought up in it can bring a person to their psychological ruin. If this results in suicide, no one is to blame but your shell church. If you think you can post on here that suicide doesn't equal hell in the PRC church you are delusional. Of course it is unwritten. Just like someone who doesn't use the PR school cannot serve in office. For many many years it was an unwritten rule, EVERYONE knew it, but it wasn't in writing . The Dick case forced it into writing, and even then you have to read between the lines.
You think you know what God intends? How arrogant! GOD doesn't govern his decisions by your cute little rules. He is a lot bigger than you can imagine - I know this from experience since leaving your cult.
You say, You people are twisting everything to what 'you' want others to believe. I beg to differ. We twist nothing. The only twisting we do is try to unwind the twisted minds you have created. And you actually have a problem with twisting everything to what we want others to believe? You guys are the MASTERS of twisting OTHERS to conform to what YOU believe. The only difference is, you work with programmed parents and then program their children. These children know nothing else! It is borderline criminal!
You say, stop casting your judgment on our churches? Your cults KILL families! You think you can destroy families and expect no repercussions? The only amazing thing is how long it has taken for a site to be formed for people to band together and figure out that the problem is not them, it is the PRC!
Bitterness? Hatred? Read Hosea 13:8 to get a feel for the energy behind this site. YOU have started this site. The PRC provided the energy, the reasons, the cause for this site. Its interesting that the PRC had to teach me that the PRC is not a cult. What kind of church needs to take time to teach its members that its not a cult? Think about it.
Instead of fervently praying for us, peel back the layers of arrogance and do some soul searching. ask around if anyone has been cut off from family for leaving the prc. Go visit them and find out if its true for yourself. then come back here and report - and earn the name TRUTH.
I almost killed myself... Via talking pills... Because I didn't think I could leave the Prc... The Prc killed me inside out... It was after the third time I decided no MAN no CHURCH will kill me!!! I will leave the pc I will live and I will follow the LORD JESUs CHRIST who loves ME the SiNNER
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Post by KristianWrights on Sept 11, 2015 0:00:55 GMT
Thanks freefrprc!!!! You have given me strength!!!
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Post by crazychurch on Sept 11, 2015 0:01:42 GMT
YOU have started this site.
Now, there is some truth. Word.
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Post by crazychurch on Sept 11, 2015 0:03:14 GMT
Wait a second......quote for me where the pr says that you are going to hell or heaven. Give me a direct honest quote! And do you think God truly intended for one of His to take their life? No matter the difficulties a child of God bears there is Christ to sustain us. We are' not' saved because we repent..... But as children of His don't we WANT to? If one truly believes in predestination and election and the forgiveness of sins then live that way. Stop casting your judgement on our churches. Just live the way Christ intends you to live. Sure, bitterness happens and sin must be confronted. Don't spew your hatred. Confront it. Live Christlike. Many prayers are with you Almost laughable. Your username is as dishonest as your cult. If your practices were in writing, you would not be able to exist as a church. Nowhere do you actually write down that members should shun members who leave, yet it happens with precision. You bring up your children so that by time they reach puberty, they are deformed instead of reformed. They are unable to make decisions other than what they were programmed to make. It is statistically unsustainable that the number of PR children who join the PR church are truly drawn there by the holy spirit. They are TAUGHT to be pr. They are simply doing what they are taught. If they disobey what they are taught, they are socially scorned and banned from associating in any meaningful way with other members, family or not. You teach that this is internal growth, and think it is healthy. It is completely twisted. I can tell you that the thought of leaving the prc once brought up in it can bring a person to their psychological ruin. If this results in suicide, no one is to blame but your shell church. If you think you can post on here that suicide doesn't equal hell in the PRC church you are delusional. Of course it is unwritten. Just like someone who doesn't use the PR school cannot serve in office. For many many years it was an unwritten rule, EVERYONE knew it, but it wasn't in writing . The Dick case forced it into writing, and even then you have to read between the lines.
You think you know what God intends? How arrogant! GOD doesn't govern his decisions by your cute little rules. He is a lot bigger than you can imagine - I know this from experience since leaving your cult.
You say, You people are twisting everything to what 'you' want others to believe. I beg to differ. We twist nothing. The only twisting we do is try to unwind the twisted minds you have created. And you actually have a problem with twisting everything to what we want others to believe? You guys are the MASTERS of twisting OTHERS to conform to what YOU believe. The only difference is, you work with programmed parents and then program their children. These children know nothing else! It is borderline criminal!
You say, stop casting your judgment on our churches? Your cults KILL families! You think you can destroy families and expect no repercussions? The only amazing thing is how long it has taken for a site to be formed for people to band together and figure out that the problem is not them, it is the PRC!
Bitterness? Hatred? Read Hosea 13:8 to get a feel for the energy behind this site. YOU have started this site. The PRC provided the energy, the reasons, the cause for this site. Its interesting that the PRC had to teach me that the PRC is not a cult. What kind of church needs to take time to teach its members that its not a cult? Think about it.
Instead of fervently praying for us, peel back the layers of arrogance and do some soul searching. ask around if anyone has been cut off from family for leaving the prc. Go visit them and find out if its true for yourself. then come back here and report - and earn the name TRUTH.
A masterpiece of truth right there.
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Post by monica on Sept 11, 2015 0:37:05 GMT
My guess is that the prc, generally, would treat the sin of suicide in a legalistic fashion, void of understanding or empathy. It would be a black and white, dualistic judgment. My guess is that they would consider this sin the result of weakness and self-centeredness. Mental illness, external influences and the like would not be considered in their judgment. There would be little to offer those remaining in the way of comfort. I do not accept that suicide is an unforgivable sin. I'll leave judgment to God. I think the statement above answers your second question, as regards to my opinion. My guess is that many pr(s) do have faith that those who commit suicide will burn in the pits of hell for eternity, glorifying God in their due pain and anguish, and they'll say this without batting an eyelash. That's my guess. My experience has been that this is exactly how the PRC treats suicide and I am speaking from personal experience.
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Post by monica on Sept 11, 2015 0:41:53 GMT
I thought the only unforgivable sin was not believing in the Lord Jesus Christ.
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Post by cannalily on Sept 11, 2015 16:18:31 GMT
I thought the only unforgivable sin was not believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. That's always been shady too...no one knows how or what you can or cannot do for this unreversable sin. At least I've never heard a good definition.
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Post by monica on Sept 11, 2015 16:43:57 GMT
I thought the only unforgivable sin was not believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. That's always been shady too...no one knows how or what you can or cannot do for this unreversable sin. At least I've never heard a good definition. I actually do believe this. To answer your question I would say you can pray and ask for faith.
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