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Post by cannalily on Sept 5, 2015 13:55:31 GMT
So I was reading here, exprc.freeforums.net/thread/459/oh-noz-blood-moon, that and I'll quote: "...if you were raised PR you were taught that suicide is a sin, God keeps Christians from committing that sin because you cannot repent of it."
Because you can't repent of this sin, does this become the unrecoverable sin? Do PR's believe that they're going to hell if you commit suicide? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2015 17:25:56 GMT
My guess is that the prc, generally, would treat the sin of suicide in a legalistic fashion, void of understanding or empathy. It would be a black and white, dualistic judgment. My guess is that they would consider this sin the result of weakness and self-centeredness. Mental illness, external influences and the like would not be considered in their judgment. There would be little to offer those remaining in the way of comfort.
I do not accept that suicide is an unforgivable sin. I'll leave judgment to God.
I think the statement above answers your second question, as regards to my opinion.
My guess is that many pr(s) do have faith that those who commit suicide will burn in the pits of hell for eternity, glorifying God in their due pain and anguish, and they'll say this without batting an eyelash.
That's my guess.
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Post by KristianWrights on Sept 5, 2015 18:15:32 GMT
I think a few years ago the beacon lights or could be standard bearer had an article that said the unrecoverable sin was that you blasphemed the Holy Spirit, which the idea was that you were not elect because the Holy Spirit was not in you. The bible teaches its a sin to take a life, and we need to repent of all our sins. Sure you can argue about whether or not you would have time to repent, and other similar arguments, but I think that is missing the point. So if you are Calvinist and believe in TULIP, wouldn't that be some what of a conundrum to say you believe in Preservation of the saints but God still lets the elect commit a sin of rebellion against God by destroying the temple of the Holy Spirit? I was under the impression most PR's were taught this idea. So what I don't get about Prs saying suicide is a sin because you don't have time to repent from that sin. So let's just say your an alcoholic and you get killed in a car accident (one you didn't cause and you weren't drunk at the time) and you never had time to depend of your alcoholism. Your saying you go streight to hell? Where is the grace and the love. I just don't believe that God would send his child to hell because he didn't ask for repentance minutes before his death. What if you hit the breaks and took Gods name in vain and hit a tree and died?? What happens then you go to hell for swearing and not asking for repentance |
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Post by cannalily on Sept 5, 2015 19:43:16 GMT
I think a few years ago the beacon lights or could be standard bearer had an article that said the unrecoverable sin was that you blasphemed the Holy Spirit, which the idea was that you were not elect because the Holy Spirit was not in you. The bible teaches its a sin to take a life, and we need to repent of all our sins. Sure you can argue about whether or not you would have time to repent, and other similar arguments, but I think that is missing the point. So if you are Calvinist and believe in TULIP, wouldn't that be some what of a conundrum to say you believe in Preservation of the saints but God still lets the elect commit a sin of rebellion against God by destroying the temple of the Holy Spirit? I was under the impression most PR's were taught this idea. So Sampson went to hell even though God gave him back his strength? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2015 20:42:23 GMT
I think a few years ago the beacon lights or could be standard bearer had an article that said the unrecoverable sin was that you blasphemed the Holy Spirit, which the idea was that you were not elect because the Holy Spirit was not in you. The bible teaches its a sin to take a life, and we need to repent of all our sins. Sure you can argue about whether or not you would have time to repent, and other similar arguments, but I think that is missing the point. So if you are Calvinist and believe in TULIP, wouldn't that be some what of a conundrum to say you believe in Preservation of the saints but God still lets the elect commit a sin of rebellion against God by destroying the temple of the Holy Spirit? I was under the impression most PR's were taught this idea. If one is not a Calvinist and refers to only flowers as TULIP, is he or she a Christian? Let's say a Methodist, for example. |
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Post by cannalily on Sept 6, 2015 0:55:12 GMT
I just told you what I thought about it. That's all. Hmm. What about Sampson? |
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Post by cannalily on Sept 6, 2015 1:01:01 GMT
I don't know, what's your opinion? Nice try. How about logically following your own conclusion? |
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Post by cannalily on Sept 6, 2015 1:07:00 GMT
So what I don't get about Prs saying suicide is a sin because you don't have time to repent from that sin. So let's just say your an alcoholic and you get killed in a car accident (one you didn't cause and you weren't drunk at the time) and you never had time to depend of your alcoholism. Your saying you go streight to hell? Where is the grace and the love. I just don't believe that God would send his child to hell because he didn't ask for repentance minutes before his death. What if you hit the breaks and took Gods name in vain and hit a tree and died?? What happens then you go to hell for swearing and not asking for repentance Good question. And I don't know if all PR'S believe it, that's just what I thought they were teaching. Come on, man. Be straight up for just one second. What do YOU think? |
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Post by mercy on Sept 6, 2015 20:27:37 GMT
"...if you were raised PR you were taught that suicide is a sin, God keeps Christians from committing that sin because you cannot repent of it."
Because you can't repent of this sin, does this become the unrecoverable sin? Do PR's believe that they're going to hell if you commit suicide? Suicide is a sin, but it's not *the* unforgivable sin. To say a sin can only be forgiven IF you repent of it, is wrong. That takes the power of grace and forgiveness OUT of God's hands and puts it in ours. God isn't holding onto forgiveness until He hears us repent - No, He's forgiven us even before we committed the sin! And our election is sure - if we are saved, nothing can change that... even if our final sin is suicide. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 21:01:13 GMT
"...if you were raised PR you were taught that suicide is a sin, God keeps Christians from committing that sin because you cannot repent of it."
Because you can't repent of this sin, does this become the unrecoverable sin? Do PR's believe that they're going to hell if you commit suicide? Suicide is a sin, but it's not *the* unforgivable sin. To say a sin can only be forgiven IF you repent of it, is wrong. That takes the power of grace and forgiveness OUT of God's hands and puts it in ours. God isn't holding onto forgiveness until He hears us repent - No, He's forgiven us even before we committed the sin! And our election is sure - if we are saved, nothing can change that... even if our final sin is suicide. I'm glad you have posted again, Mercy. I appreciate your input. It is thoughtful and respectable. Something I can't always say about myself. Thanks for not leaving. |
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Post by runningbear on Sept 7, 2015 1:51:26 GMT
I don't know, what's your opinion? Nice try. How about logically following your own conclusion? Hebrews 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: So we see that Samson was numbered among the heroes of faith. |
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Post by runningbear on Sept 7, 2015 2:24:43 GMT
I don't have a Reformed punitive view on suicide. I just have a compassionate one. Anybody so sad and miserable, or tormented in this world due to depression or illness and so chooses to end their life's HELLISH suffering is, in my book a candidate for heavenly mercy from God. Think about it...suicide is potentially a rash or desperate act one makes in order to bring relief by ending otherwise immense hellish suffering within one's body and soul. I can only see a compassionate God saying "welcome home child, your suffering is over now...rest in peace". That's my view on this sad and tragic thing called suicide. What suicide may do to others is sad also...feelings of anger and hurt, abandonment and all that are sure to be consequences. Olly, let's apply what you stated here relative to PRC conduct. Most of us know how PRC leadership deals with one whom they deem to be rebellious or insubordinate for not following all of their additional man made rules and requirements for salvation and/or covenant of works. I am referring to such things as disagreement with their budget system, failure to use their christian school system and admonishment given to their preacher or elders. These are some basics I remember. Maybe newer tactics have been added to the list. Human beings, including elect believers, have an innate or naturally born strong desire to seek fellowship, to be loved and cherished by someone, to have emotional support. Especially so is this true when believers seek fellowship relative to and including their salvation. The newer believer may have found what he/she believes to be probably the only remaining bastion for salvation, doctrinally speaking or otherwise. Then let the PRC leadership apply their nasty "christian discipline" when infractions occur against their man made edicts. This believer so involved in such proceedings and shunning, especially so those new to the faith but lacking experience in dealing with a false church, can surely succumb to soul and body destroying feelings and emotions such as you mention. So this new believer, inexperienced in the battles of faith, surely is brought very low by such wretched action. I have watched people go through this more than once in the PRC. This reminds me of Mt 23:13 in part: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. May the Lord Jesus Christ be set before you all in your deliberations. |
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Post by cannalily on Sept 7, 2015 15:22:33 GMT
Nice try. How about logically following your own conclusion? Hebrews 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: So we see that Samson was numbered among the heroes of faith. Can you be a hero of faith and still end up in hell? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2015 16:28:22 GMT
"...if you were raised PR you were taught that suicide is a sin, God keeps Christians from committing that sin because you cannot repent of it."
Because you can't repent of this sin, does this become the unrecoverable sin? Do PR's believe that they're going to hell if you commit suicide? Suicide is a sin, but it's not *the* unforgivable sin. To say a sin can only be forgiven IF you repent of it, is wrong. That takes the power of grace and forgiveness OUT of God's hands and puts it in ours. God isn't holding onto forgiveness until He hears us repent - No, He's forgiven us even before we committed the sin! And our election is sure - if we are saved, nothing can change that... even if our final sin is suicide. If you were to forgive someone who hurt you, even if they have not asked for forgiveness or admitted wrong, wouldn't the act of accepting forgiveness by this person be, in a sense, an admittance of the wrong? Why would you accept forgiveness if you didn't think you need it or have done nothing wrong? It seems to me that if you are a Christian and accept God's forgiveness through faith in Christ, you are in a sense confessing sins past, present, and future just by accepting the gift. I think Mercy is correct in this, even before we have committed that sin. However, I'm not comfortable with the word "election". |
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Post by freefromprc on Sept 10, 2015 0:36:35 GMT
I think a few years ago the beacon lights or could be standard bearer had an article that said the unrecoverable sin was that you blasphemed the Holy Spirit, which the idea was that you were not elect because the Holy Spirit was not in you. The bible teaches its a sin to take a life, and we need to repent of all our sins. Sure you can argue about whether or not you would have time to repent, and other similar arguments, but I think that is missing the point. So if you are Calvinist and believe in TULIP, wouldn't that be some what of a conundrum to say you believe in Preservation of the saints but God still lets the elect commit a sin of rebellion against God by destroying the temple of the Holy Spirit? I was under the impression most PR's were taught this idea. Unfortunately, the question isn't as black and white as the prc makes it. That rag, the 'standard bearer', tries to make a standard for spirituality. That's the first error. The standard bearer is as misleading to Christians as the news media is to the general public. What nerve for the prc to claim they know if a person goes to heaven or hell! A person so deeply involved in their own emotions to go as far as suicide leaves a massive wake of sorrow behind in the people they leave behind. I can't imagine the sorrow that is added to those who are misguided by this cult to believe their loved ones go to hell. The crazy thing is that the belief that suicide means hell because a person doesn't have time to repent, falls right into works righteousness. We aren't saved because WE repent, are we? What a screwed up mess the prc has made of doctrine. |
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